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being only a winter business, I thought it ne- rigid examination. You open your pages in a cessary to learn some summer business, and manner which I cannot but admire : you do not went to learn painting. After being 3 months speculate upon subjects which have more conwith an Englishman, I went to a Scotchman,nection with the imagination than with the with whom I could get better work and learn judgment; neither do you treat upon subjects more. I agreed with him for two years, but that have been treated threadbare, and are now in the fall the flood and gale of 1844 nearly unpopular, excepting, of course, those things drowned us out, and we were set adrift, having about which we are imperatively commanded to shift for ourselves all winter. In the spring to speak, whether popular or not. But you I would not, therefore, go to him again, but press foremost in the advancing enlightenment, engaged with an American, Mr. Wilgus, and all the while sustaining a manly independencehave remained with him over 4 years. I might an irreproachable respectability. You fearlessly say, from the treatment I receive, that I have grasp the “ questions of the present age”-yon been adopted as one of his family. I have for take cognizance of the topics of the present day the last 18 months lived in the house, and the — to use a common phraze, it is a practical flow of social feeling seems to have made me journal. And among the questions that are constantly at home.
being thoroughly sifted in it, I have to acknowThis is certainly a good country compared ledge deep gratitude for the many excellent with the old-good for honest, industrious articles on Moral Societies and Unfulfilled Promen of energy, but limited capital. They here phecy, especially those emanating from A. find an opportunity to better themselves if they Campbell. But it is about the latter, viz. Proact wisely, and everybody will be ready to help pheey, that I shall now crave your attention for them when they see them try to help them a little time. selves. But there are many worthless English- Being but imperfectly acquainted with unfulmen here, whom every body despise.
filled prophecy, and thinking it of importance, While I spent the winter in New York, I at- I read eagerly all that appears about it: but, tended the disciple church, 80, Green-street. | novice that I am in piercing dim futurity, and I certainly was disappointed in discipleism, as relating to a certainty its coming events, yet I I found it in this country. Many who had come cannot spare much sympathy for the literalists. to this country expecting to find the disciples In calmly reasoning.--if I can say calmly when angels, being disappointed, are not as affection so much biassed to the spiritual reign-on the ate as they ought to be. Then, again, many pretensions of both parties, with the aid of inof the disciples have been disappointed in those spired writ, I find passages individually, and who come over from the Old Country. I have others collectively, which I fancy form difficulfound odd ones here at Buffalo, and once we ties irreconcileable to their theory. The folmet together to break bread, keeping on for a lowing I humbly submit to your judgment :few weeks, sometimes numbering 20 ; but we | 1 Thes. iv. 17, 1 Cor. vi. 2, John v. 28, Mat. have such a shifting population in Buffalo that xxv. 31. These are the principal passages. in a month or two there was nobody left. First The first thing I would consider is, at what Brother Brogden, in whose house we met. period of time does the descent in the 4th chap. moved to Lockport, and thus left us without a of 1st Thessalonians--for a descent is evidently meeting place. Then some of the Advent peo understood, “ remain till the coming of the ple lent us their house; but a wicked slander Lord,” “neet the Lord in the air”-take place: being circulated against them, the brethren it cannot be in the middle of the millennial
it cannot be in the middle of the thought it not prudent to meet there.
reign, and to say it was any time before would My brother resides at Niagara falls at present. be merely a saying, therefore it must be at its I generally attend the Advent meeting ; they commencement or conclusion. The literalists are now great preachers of baptism, and Peter's think the former, I the latter, and my reasons command is often repeated. We often discuss will be seen in the sequel. the weekly breaking of bread, and they now at The next question I would notice is, where tend to it every other week ; I will try to get (allowing for the present that the descension in them to have one evening in the week to ex. | Thessalonians is the harbinger of that hallowed amine the matter. I am willing to pay all the state of existence which assuredly remains for expenses; many are favorable, and I have yet Christians to enjoy) do the saints go after meethope. If those will not obey who are expecting | ing the Lord in the air ? or rather, where do the Lord, who will ?
the Lord and the saints go ? for it is said they Your brother in Christ,
are to be joined together, never to be separated, F. B. Scott,
but to be ever with the Lord. There are only
three places of whose inhabitants they can form THE HARBINGER - COMING OF THE
a part, hell, earth, or heaven ; if to any other
(if other there be) we can have no idea of it, LORD.
and therefore it is not a fit subject for mortal DEAR BROTHER — As I become acquainted discussion. To hell they cannot go ; heaven or with the HARBINGER, it increases in value-it earth must be their abode. Now come my diftriumphantly passes through every ordeal of'ficulties : if they ascend to heaven, how is it that in Mat. xxv. 31, when reading of the Mes- | that have done evil to the resurrection of siah coming to judgment, we hear not a word | damnation.” Now regarding these words, (as about the saints coming with him, for if they to which Brother Campbell made some excellent had been in heaven, they must have accompa- remarks in the HARBINGER for March) it will nied him to the great tribunal, inasmuch as in not do for parties to say, that one thousand 1 Cor, vi. 2, we are distinctly told that the years before the last day this voice shall be saints shall judge the world? If this difficulty heard by all that are in their graves, but they be got over by saying that being now spiritual that sleep in Jesus only come forth and obey iced they could judge spiritually, how would it: this would be a construing of the meaning their absence be excused, when we read, in the wholly unjustifiable. We must neither add to, same chapter, that all nations, kindreds, and nor take from, what is said. tongues, are to be gathered before him? And But it is asserted, again, that at the comwhere would they find scripture to justify the mencement of the personal reign of one thoubelief in two ascensions and two descensions, sand years, the saints shall rise and reign with independently of the descent in which he took | Christ. Now allowing this, these saints must our likeness, and lived here below ?
die again, so that they may be in their graves Should the saints, after joining the Lord, re- when the voice of the Master is heard summonturn to the earth, difficulties of the same nature ing every soul, just and evil, to come forth and occur : two descents have yet to transpire ere be judged. But of this second death, so very the world's history will be completed, if Matthew important, not a word do we see recorded. We and John mean what their words imply. In the hear of a first and second resurrection, but never narrative of the first of these apostles, (xxv.) his do those that officiate in the one take part in appearance at the day of judgment is represent the other also, it being understood that one ed as coming : “ When the Son of Man shall part of the human family makes one, and anocome in his glory.” Now had he been on earth ther part constitutes another. This conclusion a thousand years before this solemn occurrence, to which they are legitimately brought, the word he would not have to come to it to judge it. of God is silent upon, and, being so important, That this is his first appearance after that in the if true, it would have spoken distinctly. flesh is, I think, still more evident from what Lastly, it is said with a mode of reasoning we read further on, “And then shall he sit upon peculiarly their own, that when the voice menthe throne of his glory.” Now already does he tioned in John is heard, the righteous rise only. sit upon his throne; there is a constitution of Now the Lord emphatically declared that all which King Messiah is head; he has subjects who are in their graves should hear the voice; who obey his mandates, and observe his laws; and this is strengthened by the fact that there he is ever ready to repel foreign aggression; is no mention of the voice speaking twice. Here maintaining the happiness of his people unim- then is a state which we have no language to paired: he guides, governs, and protects them describe: the wicked are in a state of sensias loyal subjects: they love him, and as a kind bility in their graves; they hear sounds, yet prince he cherishes them: and all this spiritu- know they are not to obey them. ally, for he is unseen, preparing a better king It will be seen that I have endeavoured to dom, of which we shall take possession when make out, from the premises of the literalists, the tenure of this provisional abode shall expire. three unscriptural conclusions :- 1st, two deWhat does the word Then mean in the passage scensions, independent of the one which has alquoted, or why is it placed there ? Simply to ready taken place; 2nd, the raising of the saints import that some distinct and apparent change from their graves, their second death, and their will take place in the divine appearance and return to their graves ; and 3rd, some indefinacircumstances; and what can this change be ble notions about the wicked being in a state of but the inverse of what is now ? He reigns spi- sensibility in their graves, prior to everlasting ritually now, then he shall appear personally. punishment. These, and some other difficulOnce he appeared in shame, but then he shall ties, are, I think, fairly deducible from what descend the fountain-head of might and glory. | they profess to believe. If he appeared one thousand years before this The reasons must now be obvious which lead day—which all admit is the judgment day-it me to believe that the descent of the Lord adwould be a contradiction of this passage ; for verted to in Thessalonians will not take place, mot again is he to be rejected and despised; his until the millennial reign be ended ; and that no mediatorial office on earth is accomplished, his personal appearance of our beloved Lord need work as an ambassador is finished, and if he | be expected until the end of time, when he shall come at all he must come to reign, which, in come to judge, and then put forth his almighty the very nature of things must be glorious. fiat, which shall make
But in John, chap. v. the Saviour is more explicit in his account of the judgment day—
The gorgeous palaces, the cloud-capt towers, “ Marvel not at this, for the hour is coming
The great globe itself, yea all that it inherits, when any that are in their graves shall hear his
Dissolve, and like the baseless fabric of a vision, voice, and shall come forth; they that have done
Leave not a wreck behind." good to the resurrection of salvation, and they' But while I believe this, it may be necessary
to say, that the reasons for a universal acknow the views held by you, are very different upon ledgment of the authority of Jesus—and conse- that subject, for they proclaimed pardon and quently, a glorious reign of that kingdom which peace to every one who believed their testimony is in the bosom of every disciple of Jesus, du- concerning Jesus; but had they believed that ring which Satan shall be so restrained, that baptism was the divinely appointed medium to none of his machinations will be allowed to the enjoyment of pardon and peace before God, mar its felicity—are so plain and obvious, that they would in no case have omitted giving their to deny such would be to deny evidence, and hearers this information, so necessary to their question that which has been the hope of ages, happiness, had they entertained the same views and is the expectation of every intelligent that you do respecting baptism. Your reply to Christian. Yours truly,
my third letter just amounts to this, that there W. H. is a time when, and a place where, sins are
forgiven ; and it is your opinion it is at baptism
this takes place. You then adduce the change BAPTISM-A SCOTCH BAPTIST. that took place on the minds of the three thou
sand who heard Peter's discourse upon the day Edinburgh, May 9, 1849.
of Pentecost, as a concluslve proof that baptism DEAR SIR-In your reply to my last letter, 1 is the divinely appointed medium to bring beyou promised further remarks upon it. As I lievers into the enjoyment of peace and pardon am now disposed to think you do not intend to before God. redeem that pledge, I shall now make some re
With regard to the time when pardon is marks on the reply you then made.
obtained, in my opinion it is when the gospel You say, as your two former replies had not is believed in the heart as the truth of God: at convinced me, you had little hope of doing it. that moment the sinneris pardoned, not through The truth is that every reply you have made
baptism, but by that represented in baptism. has more firmly convinced me, that the views I The place where sins are pardoned, is the place held upon baptism before our correspondence where the gospel is believed, wherever that commenced, are those taught in the word of
may be. God. I think, by the way you speak of bap- & gain, with regard to the wonderful change tism, you exalt it to a place far higher than the that took place in the minds of those who Scriptures place it. For instance, in your reply were baptized, I presume you will admit that to my first letter you affirm that by obedience all those who were baptized, were considered to baptism, guilty man is restored to the favor to have believed the gospel, as they had no of God. Now I think the Scriptures teach that authority to baptize any but such as had done nothing can restore to that favor but faith in so. Now the gospel that Paul proclaimed was, the work which Jesus finished upon the cross. that Christ died for our sins according to the Again, in your reply to my second letter, you Scriptures, and was buried and rose again the | affirm that baptism is the divinely appointed third day according to the Scriptures, and afmedium to bring believers into the enjoyment | firmed that every one who believed this and of pardon and peace before God. But I must held it fast would be saved. And Peter, in reject this affirmation until you produce the the many other words that he spake unto the Scripture where this divine appointment is re
people after he had convinced them that they corded. You have produced one passage from I had crucified the promised Messiah, although Rom v. 1, which you have quoted thus-There
not recorded, must have informed them that fore, being justified by faith, (through baptism) through that very person whom they had we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus crucified was proclaimed the forgiveness of sins, Christ. Had the words “ through baptism,”' and that every one who believed is justified been inserted by the apostle, this single passage from all things that he could not be justified would have settled the point you contend for; by the law of Moses. Whether he did so in but as they are thrust into the passage by you, the same words cannot be affirmed, but in the they only show what you think he should have many words not recorded he must have prosaid, and appears to me to look something like claimed the good tidings, and they must have a reproof of the apostle for the omission. Al- | believed them; but it does not appear they had though your theory of baptism may need a prop believed the gospel when the record of Peter's of that kind, it is evident the views the apostle discourse ends, or they would not have cried had of baptism were very different from those out in the agony of their soul what they did you hold; for he elsewhere says, every one that (as you very properly express it) had they then believeth is justified from all things from which
received the saving truth. I would now ask he could not be justified by the law of Moses, | whether it is more reasonable to ascribe the without adding through baptism. The Apostle
change that took place in their minds to the Peter also declares that to Jesus all the prophets | gospel which they had believed, which turns bear witness, and that every one who believes from darkness to light, or to ascribe the change, on him shall receive forgiveness of sins by his or any part of it, to an institution which is name, without adding through baptism. But only a figurative representation of that glorious it is quite evident the views of the apostles, and truth by which guilty man is restored to the favor of God? I am disposed to think that both should be explained upon the same princithe articles which appear in the HARBINGER, ple. To explain the one figuratively, and the which I consider opposite to scripture, are in other literally, is a most absurd mode of exconsequence of understanding baptism to be plaining the scriptures. something else than a figurative institution. As you have expressed a wish of convincing The meaning of baptism, or Christian immersion, me that your theory of baptism is the correct is no where explained in all the scriptures, but one, the way to obtain this wish is to meet my in Rom. v. where the Apostle says, “ As many arguments fairly, and refute them; and if you as have been baptized into Christ, have been do so, I shall thank you for your kindness : but baptized into his death.” The whole passage if you do not, in reply, fairly meet my objecshows that believers, when baptized, are said tions, but adopt soine mode of reply to evade to have died with Christ, to have been buried their force, you will more and more confirm with him, and have risen with him. Now Ime in my present views of baptism. presume no sane person will affirm that this is by giving this a place in your next, you will literally true; but it must be true in some sense much oblige me, and also show your readers or other, and the Apostle says that baptism is how our correspondence at present stands. I the likeness of Christ's death, burial, and re-am, dear sir, yours very respectfully, surrection. All these must be understood of
A SCOTCH BAPTIST. baptism as the likeness. Now a likeness is just the resemblance or representation of any thing
NOTE. --The Scotch Baptist contends that by some means or other. Now Jesus Christ baptism is only a figurative institution--an has appointed immersion in water as the proper | outward sign of inward grace ; that it imparts means of representing his death, burial, and
no satisfaction to any one, inasmuch as the enresurrection, in which institution he is figuratively represented as being present in it: so that
| joyment of peace, pardon, and salvation are efbelievers are said figuratively, in baptism, to | fected by FAITH ALONE. On the other hand, have died with him, to have been buried with the Scriptures say nothing regarding faith alone, him, and to have risen with him, in order that nor of baptism, or any other institution of they should walk in newness of life. But how those who deny baptism to be a
Christianity, being an outward sign of inward figurative institution understand all this, I am
good. We believe that baptism is both a sign at a loss to comprehend. I often observe in and seal; but the sign or model of doctrine the HARBINGER notices that such and such must be observed before the seal of pardon can persons have been buried with Christ in baptism, be enjoyed. Had the Pentecostian believers, and added to the church. Now I have no doubt
Saul of Tarsus, or any other penitent believer, that such persons are buried when baptized : but the question is, how they can be buried
refused to obey the gospel-the law of faith exwith Christ by baptism, if Christ is not in the cluding all boasting, they could not have obinstitution. That he is not so personally, all will tained a good conscience, or realized the enjoyadmit; and if the figurative view be denied, to ment of pardon, other than what might be desay that such an one has been buried with Christ rived
rist rived from their own delusive imagination. To by baptism, is just using words without ideas. It further appears, from this passage of scrip
rest upon the command of Jehovah put into ture, that Christ designed by baptism, that all action, “ the obedience of faith” proclaimhis followers should enter his visible kingdom ed among all nations — by which act the beby passing through an institution which figura- liever is figuratively washed in the blood of tively represented that which he passed through
Christ-alone constitutes true baptism into the in reality to his heavenly kingdom ; for it was because he humbled himself, and became
name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We obedient to death, even the death of the cross, | shall now leave our Scotch Baptist friend in the therefore God highly exalted him, &c. This enjoyment of his still firmer conviction, that view of the subject evidently corresponds with baptism is not for the remission of sins — althe words of the Apostle when he says, “ If we
though it is clearly attested in the Word of have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall then also certainly be in the
God.- ED. likeness of his resurrection"-when all his followers shall be planted together in his heavenly
QUERIES AND REPLIES. kingdom, in the likeness of his glorified bodywhen figure shall have no place, and all will be In answer to the query, “Have we, in these reality.
| latter days, any authority in the Old or New To conclude, I consider it is as proper to deny Testament to pray for another outpouring of the that baptism can wash away sins, as it is to Holy Spirit ?" your correspondent, E. M. (p. deny that the bread and wine at the supper are 235) says, “certainly." His first argument is, the body and blood of Christ. Both baptism that the “better days” include the present age and the supper are figurative institutions, and ' and the age to come: that, (in proof of which, I presume,) both are ages of spiritual gifts and and can Matthias be considered an Apostle, operations" --Dow it should be shown in what seeing that he was chosen in the absence of the sense they are so: and also, that “the one to Messiah, and the only one chosen by men ?” come is more so than the present.” We are E. E. - The Lord, after his resurrection from then told to pray to the Spirit, for “God is a the dead, explained to his Apostles all the Spirit, and they that worship Him, must wor- things written in the Law of Moses, in the ship Him in spirit and in truth.” That we Prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning himare to pray for the Spirit, Luke xi. 13 is quoted. self; then he opened their minds, that they On this passage I remark, that when the Great might understand the Scriptures. It is reaTeacher spoke to his disciples on this occasion sonable to conclude that the character and office of the gift of the Spirit, we are not to suppose, of Judas (Psalm cix.) would form a part of that that they knew aught of the distinction between expository discourse; and if so, the eleven ordinary and extraordinary operations, that Apostles, in choosing Matthias, obeyed only being a modern and unscriptural distinction. the directions of the Lord. Besides, on the Again, if the disciples, to whom he was now day of Pentecost, the Lord, from the throne of addressing himself, were those whom he had his glory, fully recognized the appointment. sent to preach and heal the sick, (Luke ix. 2,) | They were all filled with the Holy Spirit; and they had received the Spirit in the one sense in Peter stood up with the ELEVEN, &c. (Acts ii. which that gift was then understood. And if 14); and the twelve Apostles called the multithey were not of the twelve, but of the seven- tude of the disciples together (Acts vi. 2.) From ty, (Luke x. 1,) although the Spirit was not yet these facts we conclude that Matthias, by the fully given (John vii. 39,)--given to all flesh direction and approbation of the Lord, was (Acts ii. 17,)--they knew full well that some numbered with the eleven Apostles. The had received this gift. The encouragement to Apostle Paul says that he was born out of due pray for it then was most appropriate, and time, and that he was not worthy to be called could only be understood in the sense in an Apostle ; yet he who wrought effectually in which some received it. This passage, there- Peter for the apostleship of the circumcision, fore, does not afford us authority to pray for also wrought effectually in Paul for the aposanother outpouring of the Holy Spirit. tleship of the Gentiles; and the wisdom of
“ 'The more full and copious effusion of the this arrangement may not be questioned by Spirit is promised,” it is said “in Ezek. xxxvi. / any one.
J. W. 24-37;” that it is "perfectly clear that the promise of the Spirit by Ezekiel remains yet to QUERIES." In what way are we to underbe realized, for it is to be when the faithful stand 1 Cor. iii. 12-15, if the work of any one sced are gathered out of all countries,” &c. shall be burned, he will suffer loss; himself, “ The faithful seed,” I presume, are the Jews however, shall be saved, yet so as by fire ?” E. E. denominated by Ezekiel, the house of Israel. —“What are the gold, silver, precious stones, This promise, made to the seed of the faithful, hay, stubble, which the apostle speaks of, and of that they should be gathered from all countries, which he warns us to take heed not to build and brought again to their own land, has been upon the foundation ?” A. H. - It appears to fulfilled, as may be seen by referring to the us, that the Apostle, in this connection, is not, books of Ezra and Nehemiah. The New Tes | as some suppose, referring to doctrines, but to tament contains no prediction or promise of persons and moral duties. The church is styled their return. The Old Testament contains no a building, a temple; and in no passage of unfulfilled prediction of this event.
Scripture is this temple, or church of God, said I do not expect that this will be admitted to consist of doctrines, but of disciples of Christ, by all your readers. And if the important who are termed living stones, built up a spiriquestion whether “we have any authority to | | tual house or temple. Now in a great intellecpray for another outpouring of the Spirit ?” tual or spiritual house, there are not only ves. depend upon the conclusion we arrive at, after | sels of gold and silver, but also of wood and an examination of the question of the return of earth-some to honour, and some to dishonour. the Jews to Palestine, then is it additionally If a man, therefore, purge himself from these, important to entertain the latter question. In (dishonourable members, with their deeds) he the apostolic age the Holy Spirit influenced, or shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, meet operated upon the minds of believers directly, for the master's use, and perfect unto every or immediately so. Is that direct influence good work. With regard to being saved as realized in the present day? I ask this question, | through fire, we may remark that it was so in order that it may be considered, should any | with the Lord and his Apostles. Peter, James, thing more be written on “another outpouring and John, and not Judas, were the most intiof the Spirit.”
M. D. H. mate associates of the Lord. He and his AposMay 8, 1849.
tles were saved as through fire, while many of
their pretended friends and followers were conQUERY.---“ Had the Apostles any authority sumed as nothing better than wood, hay, and from the Lord, or from the Prophets, to elect stubble. Let every one take heed how, and one to fill the place of Judas, the apostate; with whom, he builds for eternity. The fire is