periments at Dachau, in which several hundred innocent Jewish men and women, gypsies and Russian POW's were put through the most excruciating experiments concerning high altitude experiments and ingestion of sea water, and so forth were reporting to him daily; and he not only knew full well but was reading almost virtually daily analyses of these experiments on these human beings.

I also proved on the basis of American prosecution materials, itself, in 1946, that he was considered a prime suspect as a Nazi war criminal. I also proved by the documents that he himself gave a speech before a secret conclave of those scientists, SS officials, Luftwaffe (Air Force officials), Wehrmacht (Army officials), Kriegsmarine (Navy officials), who carried out these infamous experiments on human beings.

So, if I did nothing else as a result of this analysis of the data, I showed that he lied and, two, the Government knew about it, because even though he was listed as a suspect, prime candidate to stand trial as a war criminal in 1946, he subsequently was flown secretly to the United States in a closed U.S., at that time Army Air Force now the U.S. Air Force plane, and admitted on what they call parole entry in August of 1947 into this country, where he subsequently has been heaped with honors and accolades, degrees by the most prestigious universities, published by prestigious houses, and enjoys an affluence and influence very few citizens of America ever would.

The third agency involvements include not only knowledgeability by the INS, knowledgeability by the State Department, knowledgeability and utilization by the U.S. Air Force but, according to a report filed by Agence Press, which is the French press agency, consulation with the CIA through the early 1960's. There is a series of documents which will be shortly published by a Texas journalist confirming all of these aspects, including consultation with the CIA during that period.

So, that constitutes case 10.

I am going to skip――

Mr. EILBERG. Now, are you available for the purpose of sitting down with our staff to review the material which you have?

Mr. ALLEN. I certainly am.

Mr. EILBERG. We would like to develop not only the cases you are talking about but possibly others, because we would like to pursue these matters with the agencies involved but, obviously, cannot do it without the information that you seem to have.

Mr. ALLEN. I understand. I also understand that in my role as a writer, author, journalist, lecturer, I have latitudes that you do not. So I understand exactly your question, sir.

I hope you also appreciate and understand, with my latitude, I really have a rather different attitude in terms of what we used to call and still do in football, stinging these people in these agencies. Mr. EILBERG. We don't mind going after the agencies, but we want to do it within the rules of the House.

Mr. ALLEN. I understand.

I am going to skip case 11 because it is a matter of hearsay among his own supporters, and I am going to skip that documenta

tion, which is on this scale rather limited, but I am going to No. 12 because it's extremely important.

I would describe it briefly and then comment on the documentation which I have dug up and which I have examined, which I have had independently translated in some of my followups on it, which will indicate the level of evidential validity.

Documentation established his employment in 1941-43 in Administrative Offices in the U.S.S.R. under the direct control of the SS with the immediate reporting line to the SD, Sicherheitsdienst, which was counterespionage during German occupation of that region in the Ukraine.

Official translation, eye witness, sworn testimony, places this individual in a Ukrainian unit of Nazi collaborators used for punitive Nazi terror operations. Now, let me emphasize here I have examined the original documents which are German, which prove beyond a peradventure of a doubt his employment as described. I have the documents with his signature indicating the amount of money he was paid by the occupational forces of that part of the Ukraine by the Nazis.

Three, I have the documents showing the units to which he belonged.

Now, let me go further: There is no evidence as developed as yet indicating any participation in punitive operations as such, but the overwhelming evidence, based on his proven membership in the units in which he, indeed, belonged, to which he did, indeed, belong, necessarily suggests that such activities probably followed. My basis for this is discussion with Raul Hilberg, who is a colleague and whom I know quite well, the author of the monumental research, "The Destruction of the European Jews," and also discussions with Yuri Suhl, author of an equally monumental work, "They Fought Back," a recognized scholar in this field.

It also includes discussions with the individuals, extremely helpful individuals, I might add, at the National Archives of the United States.

These are the 12 cases that I took from my analysis of 149 cases, for whatever they are worth, and I will be quite pleased to discuss them with you again with the mutual limitations and admonitions we placed on each other.

I would now like to go to my next annex, if our time is all right. Mr. EILBERG. We hoped to adjourn about 1 o'clock, and we are just close to 1 now.

Mr. ALLEN. This would be pretty involved. Do you want to wait until after the lunch break?

Mr. EILBERG. Is that in a form which could be submitted for the record?

Mr. ALLEN. I could, but if we do that, may I just summarize what it is?

Mr. EILBERG. Would you do that?

Mr. ALLEN. The summary is that these individuals are not U.S. citizens, they are not living here, but they have been what I call transiently utilized. I believe that all agree their names can be used.

The list is only of six individuals, actually such a list could literally run into the hundreds, and let me describe why.

The following are not living in the United States or citizens who are naturalized or permanent resident aliens. Some, indeed, already passed away. However, each one of them has been accused of Nazi war criminality, some having stood trial and been convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Without exception, the following have been wanted by all or one of the members of the Grand Alliance of the World War II, as you know, there were several crime commissions.

There was the U.N. War Crimes Commission and then there was the Commission of the Soviets. Even to this day warrants for their arrest as war criminals still obtain in certain countries in certain instances. Moreover, certain of these individuals also share another trait. They were listed as names on the earlier 1973-75 list of Immigration and Naturalization Service of those "Reported Nazi War Criminals Residing in the United States."

That is the title of the list.

Some have been the subject of inquiries by Members of Congress, by the former INS Commissioner, Glen Chapman who, in turn, admitted in correspondence they also had been listed by the INS. However, these listings are on samplings and representative samples, but they are quite limited, almost ridiculously so.

I have only noted the more prominent ones. I have not included, with two exceptions, anything above field grade officers from the Wehrmacht, nor have I included many of the prominent influences in the Nazi circles, the Nazi Party, the SS, and the government, foreign offices, the educational system or industry, and banking leaders of the Third Reich who have been so used since the end of World War II.

Mr. EILBERG. Mr. Allen, do I understand that these persons were used by U.S. agencies?

Mr. ALLEN. Yes; they were.

Mr. EILBERG. And you identified individuals and the agencies? Mr. ALLEN. Yes, I shall.

Mr. EILBERG. I am not asking you to do that now. Does that appear in the statement you have before you that you have prepared?

Mr. ALLEN. Yes.

Mr. EILBERG. All right; well, I think you have, unless you would want to make some further points on that, I think we have the essence of it, and you may submit it to the committee.

Is that agreeable to you?

Mr. ALLEN. You want me to skip this section entirely then? Mr. EILBERG. Yes. I think we can just skip that now. I think we have the essence of what you are saying.

Mr. ALLEN. All right; fine.

Mr. EILBERG. All right. I believe Ms. Holtzman has some questions. I certainly have a few questions I would like to ask you, and perhaps we can then wind the hearing up and, hopefully, you can spend this afternoon with our staff going over these things in more detail.

You have aroused our curiosity in many respects.

Mr. ALLEN. Yes; I will be glad to discuss it with your staff. Mr. EILBERG. Mr. Allen, you have alluded to this briefly in passing, but I would like to have your statement as to how you account

for the apparent lack of interest in the INS prior to 1973 in investigating and prosecuting cases on which allegations were received?

Mr. Allen I believe, first of all it's an excellent question, and it's not susceptible, in my view, of any single, simple, easy answer. I do not, for example, buy the notion or accept the notion rather, strike that buy, I do not accept the notion of a great conspiracy. I do not believe in great conspiracies. There are, of course, in history, conspiracies. Recently we have had the Watergate and Koreagate, and various payoffs between multinational companies and countries. They come within the precise legal definition of a conspiracy.

My own conception of a conspiracy largely derives from a footnote in C. Wright Mills book, "The Power Elite," in which he talked about first of all conspiracy being literally and philosophically a breathing together of historical processes.

The point I am getting to is that the utilization of Nazi war criminals was a logical consequence of the acceptance by our Government and also by our people of the premises which are rooted and were rooted and still are being used to some degree, quite a degree, to the Cold War. If you go back and read the Hoover Commission's report of 1954, while I do not have the statement in front of me, I do remember some of the language rather clearly. It said that we, this is 1954, we will have to instruct the people of America to accept notions that they previously never did accept, that our previous notions of fair play have to be forgotten, that we have to outwit and challenge the enemy in any way we can.

This meant accepting anything and everything, including the utilization of accused Nazi war criminals, and their collaborators, including the transplantation of former Fascist organizations like the Iron Wolf, the Iron Guard, Perkonkrust, the Fiery CrossDaugavus Vanagi, Hawks of the Vanagi, who supplied the killers and who supplied the informers and terrorists that aided and abetted the Nazis in their invasions of Europe.

It is because of the implementation of this unquestioned concept that such excesses, in my view, extreme excesses against the liberties and the rights of the American people and our American democratic tradition that utilization of Nazi genocidists took place.

I think the atmosphere, what Chief Justice Douglas called the miasma and the pall of fear which hung over our society for virtually more than two decades accounts in no small part for such utilization. There are most certainly instances in the Government of coverup. There are almost certainly instances of delay and protracted delay, and there are

Mr. EILBERG. Can you name names and cases?

Mr. ALLEN. Yes; I can, and I certainly shall. I have done it already on the record in my writings, and I have many many more. But the point I am making in response to your question, Mr. Chairman, is that I believe the more logical and the more broad and longer point of view must start from examining the basic premises that underlie the utilization of such creatures as these Nazi war criminals.

Mr. EILBERG. Now, we share a very deep concern over this matter, and we sit here and you sit there. You know of the interest

of the subcommittee which really came into focus around 1973. Much of the activities have developed since then.

Mr. ALLEN. Yes.

Mr. EILBERG. Now, what more should we be doing, what should other elements of the U.S. Government be doing in this matter of Nazi war criminals?

Mr. ALLEN. First of all, I must say without the work of your subcommittee, without the work of its chairman, without the work of Ms. Holtzman, I would say beyond a peradventure of a doubt there would be no interest other than a momentary passing one. I do believe that the courage and decency and honesty of certain former INS officials who have also raised an outcry about this is also a factor. I also believe that coincidental with that the proven maledictions, malfeasances, and misfeasances, and a conspiracy within our Government at the highest level, namely the Gestapo which operated out of the Oval Office of the White House, no less, also adds to the flavor and atmosphere so that the people of America are now more open to consideration of this issue.

I think without the work of this subcommittee, however, that would not be the case.

I also think the media, the daily press, radio and TV have played an extremely important probative role in realizing what is in front of us.

I might say by analogy that the process of democratic pergation that Jefferson talked about so often was never realized in the Watergate case. There was never a full implementation of that. Watergate was bought off by a deal, by the granting of a pardon to the unindicted coconspirator. We cannot allow this to happen. The issue of Nazi war criminals in the United States and your subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, and the rest of your colleagues on the subcommittee, it is really in your hands.

People like myself, journalists, writers, investigators, researchers, and the moral, highly morally motivated people such as the people who came here from Philadelphia, the concerned lawyers and concerned educators, particularly the leading role the judicial organization has played on this question, without them too this issue would never, ever, be examined. But I do believe that you have the powers of subpena, am I not mistaken?

Mr. EILBERG. Yes.

Mr. ALLEN. I do hope that you judiciously but firmly and fairly use those powers. Because I do not have such powers, and neither do the journalists whom I have cited who are extremely talented people. They do not have these powers. You have these powers, and can only say to you, good luck in the use of those powers. Mr. EILBERG. Mr. Allen, you stated that you have studied the judicial proceedings which INS has instituted in the last couple of years. Can you give the subcommittee your candid opinion on how efficiently and effectively these proceedings have been handled? Are you of the opinion that the INS trial attorneys are equal to the task of prosecuting these cases against top notch defense attorneys with extensive trial experience?

Mr. ALLEN. Yes, that question has come up, as you well know and I well know. And the criticism has been made by very knowledgeable people, former practicing attorneys, trial attorneys,