The Chancellor of the Exchequer expreffed his hope, that the worthy Alderman would not carry it to the extent of repealing the whole of the act alluded to, as it contained certain falutary clauses and regulations for preventing the adulteration of bread.

Mr. Alderman Curtis replied, that it was certainly his with to move for a repeal of th: faid act in tots, as there were fufficient pre-existent laws to prevent the evils of adulteration. Leave was given.

The Irish Estimates were prefented, and the Houfe went into a Committee of Supply; when the Secretary at War, after obferving that the Houfe had already voted the principal army estimates for the fervice of Ireland for three months, ending the 24th of March, moved for a fum of 46,6061. 35. Id. for go days extra forage for cavalry, which, after fome obfervations from Mr. Robfon, was agreed to; as were the following fums: for allowance to the Mufter Master General of Ireland for Clerks, &c. 1,7221. 158. 6d.; for half-pay to the reduced officers, chaplains, &c. 5,1571. 18s. 20.; penfions to officers widows, 1,267). 115. Itd.; the General Staff, 13,8681. gs. 1d.; hofpital contingencies, 5.5551. 195. 2d.; Kilmainham Hofpital, 14,1481. zd.; barrack department, 83,8921. 6s. 2d.

The fmall-beer allowance to the infantry was then voted at 25,1331. 175. 9d.; and the marching allowance, at 23071. 135. rid. The extraordinaries of the army of Great Britain, for 1802, at 600,000l. This laft experienced fome oppofition from Mr. Robfen, but was carried without a divifion.

December 1.

away the restraint upon the correspondence with France; which was read the first and second time.

Alderman Curtis brought in his bill to repeal the acts relative to the affize of bread.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, at the fame time that he supported the bill, did not wish it to be fuppofed that he thought any imputation could be attached on the bakers; but he was of the Alderman's opinion, that the latter fet the Magiftrate as a fcreen between them and the people. He thought that when, in 1772, the Houfe had left this fingle inftance remaining, whilst they were determined to put an end to monopoly in general, they had taken up an idea which the minds of men at present might be better prepared to fcrutinize and reject. The bill was read the first and fecond time, and committed.

After fome obfervations from Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Newbolt, Lord Glenbervie, and Mr. Ellifon, the report of the Poor Badge bill was received; and the bill, with fome few amendments, ordered to be engroffed.

December 2.

The Poor Badge bill was read the third time, and paffed.

The Houfe having refolved itself into a Committee on the Bread Affize bill, Mr. Alderman Curtis moved, that the claufe he had fubmitted to the Houfe, on the previous difcuffion, relative to the weekly returns of the fale of flour, meal, grain, &c. do ftand part of the bill; which was agreed to. Mr. Curtis then followed up his motion with a variety of claufes, the most interefting of which were the following: a claufe for making allowance to the bakers of id. on every quarter of wheat, on account of the additional duty on fakt.

Mr. Rofe thought this unneceffary, as the Magiftrates would have that power without it; that the Act which this bill meant to revive was defective; and thought it would leave the metropolis as much at the mercy of the flour-dealers as before. There were eight bufhels to a fack of corn, and only fix to a fack of flour, out of which the miller kept two for his profit, independent of the offal, an advantage which must be allowed to be enormous.

Alderman Curtis agreed that the Act of the 28th George II. was imperfect; but, even fo, it would be much better than the two Acts this bill was meant to repeal. There would indeed be no remedy adequate to that of fair competition, which would take the fupply of the metropolis out of the hands of thofe worthy gentlemen, the millers and the mealmen, whole opulence was fach, and capitals fo great, as to place the bakers in a complete ftate of indepen dence on them. There were in the metropolis, and within ten miles of the Royal Exchange,

Exchange, to which thefe-regulations extended, 3000 bakers, of whom 2500 were dependent on thofe millers, on account of the credit which they received from them. This was an evil which ought to be checked. The Chancellor of the Exchequer remarked, that the general laws gave bakers an allowance of 5s. per quarter on the price of wheat, and this claufe 4s. per fack on the price of flour. The price of flour evidently was greater than it ought to be, and the object of this meafare went to lower it. Under the prefent fyftem, the baker's profit was fixed. It was to him a matter of indifference what the price of flour was; and in fome circumftauces it was to his advantage that it should not be reduced. The Act to be revived, however, was by no means complete; and he hoped foon to fee the time when all thofe things would be left to find their own level, without Parlia mentary interference, and real justice to be done to the miller, the mealman, and the baker.

Mr. Dent defended the characters of the corn-dealers and brokers, and wished the prefent measure, if adopted at all, to have a general operation; a principle which the Alderman coincided with.

The Speaker explained his view of what occafioned the differences in price between grain, flour and bread, into which he had an infight fome years ago, in his profeffional capacity, as counfel for the Albion Mills Society; who were then, of courte, more plain, with him than they might otherwife have been. The caule, he faid, was in a great measure to be found in grain, purchafed at the Corn Exchange of London, being neceffarily fent 40 or 00 miles off to be made into flour, and then brought back again. This, befides the wafte, produced a confiderable expence in carriage, and confequently affected the price of bread, which would be proportionally lower if the corn was ground in the vicinity of the metropolis. It was the antient policy to erect mills for that purpose in all the great towns; and, were the fame adopted in London, it could not fail of beneficial confcquences.

Mr. Rofe contended, that the carriage of corn to be ground from London, being by water, was not expenfive.

Mr. Tierney was for the claufe.

The Houle agreed to it.

A claufe was alio added, calculated to accelerate the abrogation of the athize, by enacting, that the bill might be altered, or repealed, at any time during the prefent fettion of Parliament, which was agreed to, and the bill, on the motion of Alderman Curtis, ordered to be printed.

An account was, prefented of the grain, flour, meal, malt, and rice, imported into, and exported from, Ireland, from March 25, 1790, to Sept, 29, 1801.

December 4.

Mr. Vanfittart moved for leave to bring in a bill to prohibi. the diftillation, of fpirits from wheat in Ireland.

Sir John Parnell wished that the probibition fhould be extended to oats alfo.

Mr. Carry obferved, that oats were the moit productive kind of grain, and that the extenfion pointed out would materially af fect the whole fyftem of things in Ireland. Mr. Wilberforce concurred in opinion with Sir John Parnell.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, "The business of the Dutilleries has been much canvatfed out of doors; and I fhall now declare my fentiments upon it. I never will compromife between my duties and my wishes; I will uphold what I confider conducive to the welfare of my country, even against general opinion. —I do affure the Houfe, that I cannot find any argument to fhew that the diftillation from grain fhould be prevented. It is admitted that, within the laft 100 years, and particularly the last 20, the population of this country has rapidly increated. During the latt nine or ten years, owing to the disturbances of Europe, which threw fuch an immenfity of trade into our hands, the confumption has also increased, in confe quence of the great opulence of the country. The importation of grain,fince1790and 1791, has alto prodigioutly increased. Now, thefe effects and changes are only to be accounted for by the increase of trade and manufactures, which måft naturally produce an increased confumption. By enabling people to fupport a more expensive mode of living, more of the necettaries of life are ofed than when it was not to much in their power to purchase them, From the state of agriculture it appears, that this increase of confumption has increated the produce of the country; but the progrefs of agriculture is not fufficiently rapid to alwer the great and fudden increase of confumption. The true line to purice then, under tuch circumitances, fhould be, to enCourage agriculture, and to remove all reftrictions upon the produce of the country, itill regarding legitunate trade. Even un→ der the apprehenfion of an uncommon fcarcity, it cannot be forgotten how flow the House was to adopt the measure for the encouragement of importation, because a wife government will fuffer a prefie before it will have recourie to any thing which might leilen the ftimulus to lio.ne cultivation, the exigency being temporaty, but the benefit from agricultural extenfion permanent. it mult, therefore, be always the brft with and object to encourage na

tive

December 5.

tive production, except in the cafe of fome extreme and over-ruling neceffity. This was the policy of our forefathers. By ap plying grain to trade, and extending its ufe, they promoted its growth. The dif tilleries have afforded a wide field for that fpeculation. They have, been found to Contribute to the increife of the produce of the country. If then we ftop the diftilie-. lies on account of their confumption of grain, for the fame reason we may proceed to stop this, and then every other eftabithment in the numerous ufes to which grain is applied, until we thall at laft find that, by taking away the inducement to raife corn, we shall stop the growing of corn ittelf. The prohibition of the distilleries is a measure of extreme neceflity, and fuch receflity does not exift at this time. Befides, by the Act of Union, this country muft admit, the importation of fpirits from Ireland, under certain duties. The prohi bition, therefore, would enable the Irith diftiiler to ruin the English. Is it fit to impose such a restraint upon (uch a confiderable clafs of men of large property? The effect of such a measure will be, to unhinge their minds, and to difincline them against a trade, in which they cannot look forward to a steady fyitem, and fpeculate upon any fixed bafis. Befides, it is not congenial with the fpirit of the constitution, nor agreeable to the genius of the country, to impofe any unneceffary reftraints. It is impoffible that the taking at the rate of 300 quarters from a produce of 6000, which is the proportion of barley ufed by the diftilleries, and that after a moft abundant harveft in that species of grain, could operate very injuriously. I admit, however, that the expectation of the demand has raifed the price; but it is my firm belief, that if the diftilleries had been going on thefe two months paft, the price of barley would be lower than at prefent. I am thoroughly fatisfied that there are no fold grounds for the anxious folicitude expreffed upon the fubject; and I feel 1 fhould be wanting in duty, were I to confent to the reftrint which is propofed to be put upon the diffilleries."

Mr. Alexander obferved, that, by stopping the diftilleries, the Houle would, with refpect to the mountainous parts of Ireland, take the trade out of the hands of the fair dealer, and transfer it to (mugglers, to the great injury of the revenue.

After fome farther obfervations from Lord Glenbervie and Mr. Refe, the motion was agreed to, the bill brought in, and read the first time.

The Exchequer Bills, Funding bill, and the Provifion Importation bill, were read the third time, and passed.

The bill for raifing five millions by Exchequer Bals, as likewife the Prize Goods bill, went through a Committee.

The Atlize Bread bill was re-committed, in order to rectify certain clauses which, upon confideration, did not appear to be completely correct.

Alderman Curtis explained the nature of the amendments he meant to submit to the Committee, which were in the firft and fecond claufes-that, inftead of the corn and meal-factors making their return to the Magistrates, on every Monday, of the corn and flour fold on that day, they should make a return of the corn only; and that of the flour thould relate to the price, &c. from the Monday preceding. This he thought neceffary, to enable the Magistrates to form a fair average. As Monday was not a great flour-market day, it seemed better to take the average price of flour from the preceding week. The other amendment he intended to propose would relate to the penalties to be inflicted on foch perfons as fhould fail in making their

returns.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer confidered the bill as an expedient to get rid of two obnoxious afts, which fubjected the bakers, who were the objects of too much undeferved obloquy, to a fevere preliure, and which did not at all advance the interest of the community. He condemned the prin ciple of fixing the affize of bread; and declared it was his decided opinion, that the feverál crude and ill-contrived expedients which from time to time were adopted to reduce the price of bread, had operated much more than any menopoly or combi. nation to enhance the price of that article and fo with provifions in general. They fhould be left free and open, like all other <raffick.