in an appropriations bill or something else in which he cannot really exercise his free unfettered judgment. I would certainly think that would be an excellent suggestion that I would offer to this committee, that measures such as this be sent to the President as free-standing bills so that he can give it his unfettered judgment. Mr. BOLAND. Well, the President took the opportunity to veto a continuing resolution back in 1981, and his reason for that was that there was too much spending in the CR. He could have easily vetoed the Appropriations Act for 1984 in which the Boland Amendment was contained, but he sought not to do so. Chairman INOUYE. Senator Rudman. Mr. RUDMAN. Mr. Chairman, I don't think we ought to end quite on this note, and the Attorney General, I think, came close to answering a question that I was going to ask but I think I will ask it another way. The whole argument of the Boland Amendment really would make a great Bar exam question, but we are not talking about Bar exams, and the point I want to make, Mr. Attorney General, I assume you would agree with me from what you said a few moments ago that other than looking at the strict structure of a particular statute passed by the Congress, that when you look at the intent of the Congress you have to deal in good faith with that intent. Is that not so? Attorney General MEESE. That's correct, Senator. Mr. RUDMAN. I assume that so we don't leave here with a story appearing stating something that you don't believe, your opinion on Boland is your opinion. You probably get a hundred lawyers, you might get eighty opinions. But the point I want to make is that certainly you would not advocate trying to evade or avoid the impact of a law by the kind of means that some have suggested could be carried out, such as putting it in the Department of Agriculture or the DEA or whatever. You certainly-that is not a policy you, as the Attorney General, would advise, I assume? Attorney General MEESE. Absolutely not, and furthermore, as I said earlier, this is something on which we have not rendered an opinion, and I have not rendered an opinion, and I was answering a specific question, and the real answer is that I did not say yesterday that the Boland Amendment applies to the NSC staff, nor have we rendered an opinion on the subject. I was asked whether you could make a case that it did not apply. I think you can make a case that it did not apply. As Senator Mitchell says, you can also make a case that it does apply. Mr. RUDMAN. That's a whole separate issue. Attorney General MEESE. This is a whole hypothetical situation which I think really is, if I might be permitted an observation, is probably wasting the time of this committee at this point. Mr. RUDMAN. Well, I would expect so, but I don't think the record ought to indicate that you are advocating subtle avoidance or evasion of the law by reading statutes so closely and so carefully that we find ways to frustrate what is the obvious intent of any amendment, be it Boland or anything else. Attorney General MEESE. I have indicated that is correct-that is my view, that we should not be trying by unusual techniques or tricks to evade the intent of Congress, just as I feel that the President ought to have the opportunity to approve or veto these measures on their own merits and not as a part of a lot of omnibus legislation. Chairman INOUYE. Mr. Attorney General, I have one other matter that has bothered me in listening to your responses. You spoke very eloquently and very charitably about Admiral Poindexter and Colonel North and their military records. You suggested that if the Admiral had not taken the assignment in the National Security Council, he would have very likely have been a top candidate for the Chief of Naval Operations. And then you spoke of Colonel North's courageous battle records in Vietnam. I hope that, as the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, you are not suggesting to us that persons with good military records be exempt from laws relating to lying to the Attorney General or lying to the Congress. Should they be exempt? Attorney General MEESE. No, sir. No one should be exempt for any of their acts. What I said earlier—and I think it is important that it not be taken out of context-was explaining why I have respect for these two gentlemen and the fact you have to take their entire career into account and not just a particular segment of it when making a judgment on a human being. Chairman INOUYE. But your opinion now is that they should not be exempt from the laws of the land? Attorney General MEESE. I don't think that anyone should be exempt from the laws of the land, from the President on down, and I think that is the view of the President, as well. Chairman INOUYE. That pleases me, sir. With that note- Chairman HAMILTON. I just want to extend my thanks to you, Mr. Attorney General, for your appearance, and to say that I appreciate particularly your willingness to offer some help as we move into what we hope will be a more constructive phase of the committee's operation, and to raise one problem with you. I noted earlier that you said that you wanted to cooperate fully with the committee, and I want to say that I think the cooperation of the administration has been very good and we have appreciated it. However, we have had some problems in getting documents from the Department of Justice and we have not had problems in getting documents from other agencies and departments. So I would appreciate very much if you would check carefully on that point. There are still some documents that we have requested that we have not yet received, and that request has been rather long-standing, and I know it is your intention to cooperate and to provide the documents. So if you would check on that for us, we would appreciate it, sir. And we thank you for your appearance over these several hours. Attorney General MEESE. Thank you, Mr. Hamilton. Chairman Hamilton, Chairman Inouye, I want to thank both of you and particularly thank the committee for their courtesy to me in continuing the meeting tonight so that we could conclude these sessions today as far as I'm concerned. Chairman INOUYE. I would like to join Chairman Hamilton in thanking you for your patience. You have responded to our questions in good grace and we are most appreciative. It has been a long, long day, and I think the time has come for us to call this to a halt. We thank you again. I would like to call the session in recess and announce tomorrow morning we will meet here at 9:00 a.m. to receive the testimony of Donald Regan, former Chief of Staff of the White House. [Whereupon, at 8:25 p.m., the Select Committees recessed, to reconvene at 9:00 a.m., Thursday, July 30, 1987.] EXHIBIT GPS-CHRONOLOGY-A TESTIMONY OF SECRETARY OF STATE CHRONOLOGY OF NON-USG SUPPORT FOR NICARAGUAN OPPOSITION FORCES (12/8/83 - 12/4/86) 12/8/83 02/16/84 04/16/84 04/17/84 04/18/84 05/9/84 Provides that DOD Appropriations Act enacted. ARA reports to GPS that CIA program for MCFARLANE proposes seeking support for Report from US Ambassador to Country 1. GPS tells MCFARLANE he does not favor seeking - GPS learns that TEICHER told official of Country EXHIBIT Chronology A |