spect to the intercourse between this country and India, he had heard it argued, both in that court and elsewhere, that it should be permitted without any restriction. The subject was a most important one; and as it affected the Company's existence in India, they ought not to make up their minds on it rashly or hastily. Mr. R. Jackson wished to call the attention of the court to a particular word in this order, which had not been adverted to, and which, as it appeared to him, rendered the document extremely vague and uncertain. The party applying for leave to return to India, was required to produce a certificate to shew, that while he resided in that country, he had conducted himself to the satisfaction of the government. Now he understood from his hon. friend opposite, that if an individual complied with the conditions of the indenture under which he proceeded to India, that he had done all which could be demanded of him. It might, therefore, be reasonable to inquire how long the person applying had remained in India, and whether he had strictly complied with those conditions. But it was another thing, when they introduced so vague and indefinite an expression as that which was introduced in this order, by which the applicant was called on to shew that he had conducted himself with satisfaction to the government. Why they all knew, that one government might be satisfied with conduct which another government would deprecate and punish. A word so indefinite should not have been used. The form should be altered in this way-that parties applying for leave to return to India, should shew that they had complied with the conditions under which they originally went out. Mr. Wigram said, this order had been sent out on account of individuals applying to the Court of Directors for leave to return to India, on the plea that they had been there before. Of the truth of their statements the Court of Directors, in many instances, could know nothing for the individuals applying merely said, that they had previously been in India. Now under the existing law, it was, he thought, the duty of the Court of Directors to inquire and ascertain how persons so applying had conducted themselves in India. If the order merely required that those persons should shew that they had conducted themselves to the satisfaction of the government abroad, there would be some weight in the learned gentleman's objection; but it called on them to adduce proof that they had so conducted themselves. To those proofs he would look, and on them he would decide. He knew that the word satisfaction, or satisfactory, in an order of this kind, if looked at by itself critically, might give rise to an ob jection; but the order said, “you must produce proof that you have conducted yourself in a satisfactory manner,' and on that proof the Court of Directors were to exercise their judgment. The Hon. D. Kinnaird." My object has been answered by the explanation which has taken place. There is, however, a little contradiction as to what the hon. director has stated as his view of the case, for in the government gazette there is a declaration that the certificates are ready. It is clear, therefore, that one form will apply to all persons-what then becomes of the examination of proofs ?" BURNING OF HINDOO WIDOWS. The Chairman was about to put the question of adjournment, when Mr. R. Jackson reminded him that his hon. friend Mr. Poynder and himself had given due notice of their intention to submit a motion to the court. Mr. Poynder was absent in the performance of a pub lic duty, but he nevertheless deemed it proper to bring the motion forward. The Chairman said, that not seeing Mr. Poynder in the court, he had presumed that the motion was not coming on. It might, however, be now proceeded with. The clerk then read the following notice of motion, which was addressed to the Court of Directors, and was signed John Poynder and Randle Jackson: "It is our intention to make the enclosed motion at the general Court of Proprietors to be held on Wednesday next, viz. "That the Court of Directors be requested to lay before the Court of Proprietors all the proceedings which have taken place, and all the information which they may have obtained, since the passing of the following resolution of the general court of the 28th of March 1827: "That this court, taking into consideration the continuance of human sacrifices in India, is of opinion, that in the case of all rites or ceremonies involving the destruction of life, it is the duty of a paternal government to interpose for their prevention, and therefore recommends to the hon. Court of Directors to transmit such instructions to India as that court may deem most expedient for accomplishing this object, consistent with all practicable attention to the feelings of the natives." Mr. R. Jackson said he was sorry that his hon. friend, who, with him, had signed the notice which had just been read, whose name was an honour to humanity, and whose exertions to put an end to these horrid, these barbarous sacrifices, could not be too much applauded, was not in his place on this occasion. Accident had prevented his attendance; and, therefore, he felt it his duty to call upon the Court of Directors to impart that information which was alluded to in the motion which the court had recently heard. He took this step, because it was well known by gentlemen on the other other side of the bar, that in consequence of some rule or form, his hon. friend had, some time ago, been told by the then chairman, when he was desirous of receiving information on the subject to which the motion referred, that he could not ask any question till the orders of the day were disposed of: he, therefore, had no alternative but to wait five or six hours, or else to go away unsatisfied. There self to make public what he knew on the subject, he was bound to call on the Court of Directors to state what had been done in consequence of the resolution of the general court. He had not made his intention on the present occasion more public than was necessary, because the feelings of the religious public, which were very much alive to this question, ought not to be unnecessarily excited. He had, therefore, purposely held back, until he knew what course the executive body had taken. The Chairman said he was quite ready to answer the question of the learned gentleman. In consequence of the resolution agreed to by the general court, in March 1827, the Court of Directors did, on the 28th of July, send out a despatch to Bengal, upon this subject; and they had since made a communication to the same effect to the Bombay government; the despatches should be read, which would be the best answer to the learned gentleman's inquiry. The clerk then read the dispatches as they follow: "Judicial Department.-To our Governor-Gene- "2. We now reply to your letter in this department, dated the 3d December 1824, on the 3. You will have perceived from the public channels of intelligence, that this is a subject which has excited a strong interest in the public mind of this country. fore it was that notice was given of the "4. Almost the only point connected with this most delicate and difficult subject, on which there is or can be no difference of sentiment, is the desirableness that a practice so revolting to humanity should be discontinued; and we needed not your assurance to satisfy us, that you" entirely "participate with us in the feelings of detestation "with which we view the rite, and in an earnest "desire to have it suppressed; and that nothing "but the apprehension of evils, infinitely greater "than those arising from the existence of the "practice, could induce you to tolerate it for a "single day." "5. We are fully sensible of the many embarrassing considerations with which the question is beset when looked at practically; the difficulty of legislating on subjects connected with religious prejudices, particularly when the extent and force of those prejudices are but imperfectly known; the danger of unsettling the confidence of the natives in our government, and of arraying against it those prejudices which it has been our uniform policy scrupulously to respect; and the risk, in attempting to proceed precipitately or prematurely to secure the object of our wishes, of retarding, if not entirely defeating its accomplishment, by arresting the progress of education and the diffu sion of knowledge so happily begun, and to which we trust that we are not too sanguine in looking for the gradual extinction of this barbarous rite. "6. These are no light considerations. whether in what degree, and in what mode, the ordinary course of civilization, and the results which experience warrants us in anticipating from its advancement, may be accelerated by a judicious and seasonable interposition of the authority or influence of your government, are questions undoubtedly deserving the most serious deliberation and inquiry, but which we think that we shall best consult the important interests with which we are charged, by committing to your counsels, aided by the information and local experience of our servants, and directed, as we know they will be, by prudence and humanity. But 7. One of the difficulties attendant on the consideration of this subject, arises out of the "8.-We doubt not that, before this despatch reaches you, the subject will have undergone renewed deliberation; for we observe from your resolutions passed on the 10th of November 1825, that though the measures to be adopted under the instructions and authority conveyed to you in our despatch of the 17th June 1823, could not then be conveniently determined on, in consequence of the continuance of hostilities with Ava, and the contemplated military operations on your north western frontier, "the Governor-General in "Council confidently hoped that, at the period "when the next annual report of suttees should "" be received from the Court of Nizamut Adaw lut, the state of public affairs would admit of "the adoption of any measures which might then "be judged proper, with greater prospect of success than at present." "9.-We look forward with much anxiety for your next communication on the subject." "Judicial Department.-To our Governor in Council at Bombay. "Para. 1. Our last letter to you in this department was dated the 5th instant. "2. We now reply to paragraphs 139 to 146 of letter dated 25th June, 1823; also paragraphs 6 to 15 of letter dated 22d May, and paragraph 4 of letter dated 29th November, 1824, relative to suttees. "3. You have here brought to our notice the occurrence of a suttee in the Southern Concan, under circumstances, which, by the standing orders of government, rendered it illegal. Mr. Sparrow, the magistrate of the district, adverting to the peculiar nature of the case, and considering that the act, although contrary to the written Hindoo law, was in accordance with the custom of the Concan, applied to you for instructions, and abstained from bringing to punishment any of the parties who assisted on the occasion. We concur with you in thinking that Mr. Sparrow shewed great prudence and judgment in forbearing to punish the offenders. "4. You have also referred us to an account of a suttee at Poona in September, 1823, which was attended with circumstances of peculiar horror and cruelty. Three of the principal offenders were brought to trial: two of them were found guilty of endeavouring forcibly to retain the woman in the fire when attempting to come from it, and of attempting to drown her; but the shastrees declared that the acts of which they were found guilty were not mentioned in the shaster as crimes, so that there could be no punishment. The accused were, therefore, discharged. It is deeply to be regretted that, under a British government, deeds of such atrocity should have been perpetrated with impunity. We observe, however, that while the former custom, or a belief in the existence of such a custom, was admitted by you to be a ground of exculpation in this instance, it was distinctly stated to the Brahmins, and proclaimed by the authority of government, that in future every person concerned in forcing a woman to burn should be punished as a murderer. 6. In connection with the proceedings above noticed, the collector of the district, after consulting the principal Brahmins, framed new rules for regulating the act of suttee, which your government sanctioned, on a clear understanding that they were made with the free consent of the Brahmins. According to these rules, the pile is to be made chiefly of grass, and in such a form that the possibily of escape from it shall not be cut off so long as there remains strength to attempt it. The woman proposing to sacrifice herself is to be informed that this is the only description of pile which will be allowed, and that if she escapes from it she will be an outcast. The commissioner considers the impediments thus opposed to the practice of suttee, to be more efficacious than any he could suggest; and he says, it is the opinion, not only of the collector but of the natives in general, that by constructing the pile after a manner which leaves to a female who should not have resolution to go through the sacrifice the power of escaping, very few will have courage to undertake it. "7. There is one part of the arrangement, however, upon the effect of which we observe much difference of opinion had been expressed, and to which we can by no means extend our sanction. We cannot admit of any sort of declaration of forfeiture of caste being issued by our public officers, or under the authority of our government, in any case whatever. "8. A minute interference in the details of suttee, such as it is the purpose of the new rules to assume, is likewise liable to the obvious objection of virtually extending the sanction of the British government to the performance of the rite when conducted in the prescribed form. We are aware, however, that as long as the burning of widows shall be tolerated under some circumstances, and prohibited in others, interference of some kind or other cannot be altogether avoided; with the exception, therefore, which we have already adverted to, we do not feel that we should be justified in prohibiting the adoption of the rule, as an experiment for checking the practice of suttee, as every measure tending to the infrequency of the custom must necessarily afford increased facilities towards its ultimate suppression. "9. It is very satisfactory to observe, that in little more than two months after their introduction at Poonah, six widows were induced to give up their intention of sacrificing themselves; and that when ten months had elapsed, your government said it was understood that no suttee had taken place at Poonah since their adoption. "10. The zeal and humanity displayed by Captain Robertson, in his persevering endeavours to diminish the practice of self-immolation among Hindoo widows, are entitled to our full approbation. 11. We take this opportunity of forwarding to you a copy of our despatch of the 25th July, 1827, to the supreme government on the subject of suttee. London, 12th Dec. 1827. The Chairman said, the proprietors had now heard what proceedings had taken place; and there had not been sufficient time for the receipt of any replies to the court's dispatches. The directors had particularly called upon the government of India to deliberate afresh upon the subject; and he only hoped that they would arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. (Hear!) Mr. Randall Jackson wished the letters which had just been read to be laid before the proprietors, in order that they might have access to them. He was extremely glad to notice one proposition from the government of Bombay, though he must say, that he felt astonishment that such worthy and valuable servants as the Company possessed in India should display such ignorance, as where they presumed to say, that if a woman escaped from the flames, she would forfeit her caste. They must have known, if they had looked to the Shastras, that a widow, at the moment when convulsed with agony and torment, should forsake the pile, the Shastras held out high denunciations of punishment against any one who should urge her again to sacrifice herself; and the Hindoo laws provided, that in case of courage failing, or of na ture ture asserting its rights, or if the unfortunate woman recollected the infant which she had the moment before suckled at her breast-in case of any of those natural feelings arising in her mind and inducing her to forsake the flame, she had only to subject herself to certain penalties and purgations by those laws, and then, so far from losing her caste, she was restored to her friends and relations. But that was not all: a still higher reward was allowed by the law. However meritorious these wretched sacrifices might be in the eyes of the natives, yet if a widow forbears them. and lives a chaste, virtuous, and charitable life, she was regarded in still higher estimation by the natives than she who immolated herself; for according to their belief of future rewards and punishments, while she who immolated herself lives for a long time with her husband in heaven-he believed about three millions and a half of years still that period was to have a termination; but she who refused to sacrifice herself, and afterwards lived a pure, a chaste, holy and charitable life, shared immortal bliss, and that for ever. (Hear!) With these facts staring him in the face, he was sorry to find that the government of India tolerated the practice, by submitting the mode in which it should be performed. Captain Maxfield was glad that the letters to the Bengal government had been read, and he only wished that they might be made public, because it appeared that out of doors we were indifferent to the fate of these women. There was, however, he was glad to say, but one opinion prevailing as to the propriety of putting an end to the practice of Suttee, though there were different opinions as to the proper mode of doing so. It would be satisfactory to a large proportion of the British public to know what was doing on the subject, and these letters would give that information, and would be satisfactory to every reasonable man sufficiently acquainted with India. When we speak of the prejudices of others, we ought to consider that we had prejudices of our own; and perhaps the prejudices of 80,000,000 of men, which we were desirous of putting down, produced fewer casualties than those which we ourselves entertained. It was to be hoped that tenderness towards the interests and feelings of the natives would be sufficiently regarded, in taking steps to put down the evil complained of, in order that the putting down one evil might not entail a far greater one. He trusted the court would not separate without confirming that opinion; and he considered that the interest existing out of doors upon this subject, was a sufficient reason for having the papers printed. Mr. Randall Jackson observed, that the hon. gentleman behind him (Capt. Maxfield) had talked of the prejudices of eighty millions. Now it was amongst the most extraordinary circumstances attending this subject, that a very small part of India indeed was addicted to that practice. The greatest number of those who were devoted to that sacrifice, was 4000 out of 80,000,000. It was a most remarkable circumstance, that notwithstanding the facilities which existed for carrying on that practice, it had been declared, that by the aid of a company of sepoys the practice might be put down. It was in fact a practice which affected, but not infected, the whole of India. (Hear!) The Hon. Douglas Kinnaird considered that the letters which had been read, were just what might have been anticipated. There was, he thought, great ingenuity displayed in the penmanship, but they amounted after all to nothing. He lamented, however, that nothing had been done, but he believed that nothing could be done but by the influence of communication, by the progress of knowledge and civilization, which had in this country destroyed the asperity of feeling which used to exist towards the Roman Catholics. (Hear!) He had no wish to publish that specimen of ingenuity in correspondence which the proprietors had just heard, which might very well be denominated rigmarole. (Laughter.) He was satisfied that the public would know what had been done, without publishing those letters to the world. He very much lamented that the practice of suttee had not been already put an end to, existing, as had been stated, among so few a number; but he was aware that injudicious interference, or the exertion of power over so small a number, might spread the evil to great extent. Mr. Dixon hoped that the suggestion which had been thrown out by the hon. gentleman to his left (the hon. Douglas Kinnaird) would have all the weight in this court to which it was entitled, and that this court will not think it becoming in it to curry or bespeak public favour. The court stood pledged, when this proposition was first brought forward, to take every opportunity, as far as was justifiable, to lesson this evil, in the hope of putting an end to it. The Court of Directors had, through their chairman, made a declaration, that they had taken an opportunity of sending out instructions to the government abroad, which had been acted upon by their officers in India, as far as prudence suggested. With the certainty that the subject would not be lost sight of by the directors or their servants abroad, he thought it unnecessary to publish the papers. The publie would be be as well informed on that subject by the proceedings of to-day, of what had been done, and of what in future could be He therefore hoped that the motion for printing the papers would not be supported by the majority of the court. done. Capt. Maxfield wished the papers to be printed, in order that it might not go forth to the public, and to the world at large, that during many years no efforts had been made to put down a practice so revolting to humanity. Mr. Poynder would trouble the court with a few words on the present occasion. He could not agree with those who thought it neither wise nor expedient to publish the letters which had passed between the government abroad and the Court of Directors on this subject. It was not only due to the Court of Directors itself, and to the Court of Proprietors, but it was due to the public and to parliament, to which, only so lately as the last week, several petitions had been presented against the inconvenience of this practice; it was due to India in particular, that whatever had taken place on that subject ought not to shun the light. It would have been very satisfactory to him to have learned that the resolution of the Court of Proprietors, a copy of which he held in his hand, had been transmitted to the government of Bengal. If that had been the case it would have given him the highest satisfaction; but there were certain opinions abroad, to which he did not wish more directly to allude, that however desirous the Court of Directors might have been, in the honest discharge of their duty, to send to India the resolution of the Court of Proprietors of March 1827, yet in consequence of certain circumstances, that resolution did not in point of fact go out. be extremely happy if the hon. chairman would answer him upon this point. His information was, that the court, was desirous of sending out that resolution, but that other circumstances occurred, which prevented them doing so. That resolution he would read to the court, because of an assertion, or rather an assumption, which he had heard, that it had been the intention of the framers of the resolution to put down the practice complained of by force; but he could assure the court that a greater mistake had never been formed than that was. Nothing could be farther from the minds of the individuals who supported him, and of himself, in proposing that resolution than the employment of force. He would now read the resolution to the court. He should "That this court, taking into consideration the continuance of human sacrifices in India, is of opinion that, in the case of all rites or ceremonies involving the destruction of life, it is the duty of a paternal government to interpose for their prevention; and therefore recommends to the Honourable Court of Directors to transmit such in structions to India as that court may deem most expedient for accomplishing this object, consistent with all practicable attention to the feelings of the natives." He was perfectly aware of what might be said in reply to the question, which he had just put to the chairman. He knew he might be told that the Court of Directors had done what the resolution directed, but that was not so satisfactory as if the Court of Directors had sent out or been enabled to send out a copy of the resolution made by the general Court of Proprietors, by agreeing to which the proprietors had discharged themselves from the guilt of blood, (hear!) seeing that in the space of nine years, he spoke upon authority which could not be impeached; from official documents which had been presented to parliament-for 6,000 cases of immolation had taken the space of nine years, no fewer than place. Gentlemen should be aware that while they were talking on this subject 666 women were being sacrificed every year, being upwards of fifty women every month. He apprehended he might safely say, that during every month they were delaying to act on their own resolution; every month that they were delaying to do that important, that humane, that Christian and God-like duty, they were undoubtedly concurring in the sacrifice of upwards of fifty women. (hear!) That was a fact which could not be too generally known. He applied himself to this part of the subject, because of the mistake which his learned friend Mr. Jackson had committed in stating the number of persons addicted to the practice of suttee to be only 4,000. His learned friend was generally very accurate in his facts, and he (Mr. Poynder) hoped the learned gentlemanwould pardon him for setting him right. He spoke, on facts which could not be controverted, from public documents, the six volumes of parliamentary papers published from time to time, and which led to the motion of which he had spoken. It was said that the evil would die of itself. He, however, had no such expectation; he did not think it reasonable that it should die of itself. might have been done to prohibit the But much practice, by our servants abroad, had not one governor-general increased the mischief by legalizing the crime, which he had far better have denounced in the light of murder. Mr. Dixon rose to order. He begged to know whether any motion was before the court. The Chairman stated, that he was not aware that any formal motion was now before the court, he understood that a motion had been made that those papers be laid before the Court of Proprietors which had been done in order that they might refer to them. Mr. Jackson |