shall vote against the whole proposition. If we |ings which have actuated the members of this want to send papers to the people, we can pay Convention should be spread abroad throughout for them ourselves. We receive pay here, and the land, that the people may weigh the arguafter paying our board, we cannot do better than ments here advanced, and perhaps in due time

to send the balance to our constituents.

paper containing the report of our proceedings yesterday our constituents will feel but little interest in what we are doing; but at the same time I am willing that they shall know how we are employed. I trust the time will soon come when our debates and proceedings will have a deeper interest with the people, and then I want them to have the privilege of reading them. I feel justified, therefore, in voting for this appropriation that they may have this intelligence, and I trust this House will not entertain the motion just made.

arrive at the same conclusions to which this Mr. MAYES. I will say one word. It seems body has arrived? My people, I am satisfied, to me that we are in a great measure forgetting without the expression of any opinion from them, one of the important reasons operating upon will justify me in attempting to give them this the people by which they were induced to call information. I stand here without instruction this Convention. One of the great complaints from them, but I believe that I shall maintain of the county that I represent was the extrava- their will and act in accordance with their pleagance of the Legislature in its appropriations. sure in thus extending this information to them. I fear if we go on passing resolutions for the As I said before, this is the first proposition as expenditure of money as we have commenced, yet introduced to spread intelligence before we shall exceed the extravagance of any Legis-them. I admit that when they look over the lature that has gone before us. I agree with the gentleman from Nelson, that the passage of this resolution will not advance or promote the object it seems to have in view-that is the dissemination among the people of information of the action of the Convention in reference to the formation of a new Constitution. It is said that we should subscribe for papers to be scattered among the people that their minds may be informed and enlightened as to the Constitution after it has been framed by the Convention. If a gentleman will not subscribe for a paper himself, I hold it as true, that if you subscribe for it and send it to him, he will not read it even when he has it. My friend from Ballard and McCracken says that this thing was talked over in his county; mine is adjoining, and yet nothing was said there concerning it. I do not want $3,000 nor any other sum voted for papers. Such as desire to read will subscribe for them, and they will read them if they are willing to pay their money for the privilege of reading them. They do not expect the Convention to vote $3,000 or any other sum to scatter papers through the country to inform them what was done here to day or yesterday. Take up the proceedings of this Convention yesterday, and I ask you if there is any thing reported that will enlighten the public mind as to any principle being acted upon here bearing on the formation of a new Constitution. And there will be nothing in any paper that will enlighten any mind as to going for The question was then taken by ayes and nays or against any thing in the Constitution. I shall on the resolution, as amended, and it was revote for the amendment of the gentleman from [jected, yeas, 40; nays, 56. Nelson, and then against the whole resolution.

Mr. TURNER. As a great many gentlemen have said they will vote against this proposition, with a view of testing its strength, and to save time, I move to lay the amendment and the resolution on the table, and I call for the yeas and nays thereon.

The question was then taken on the motion to lay on the table, and it was negatived; ayes, 43; nays, 53.

The question then recurred on the amendment of Mr. HARDIN, and it was adopted; ayes, 57; nays 38.

Mr. T. J. HOOD. The number of papers that will be furnished under the amendment will be so small, that it will afford those who represent large counties, but a very limited means of disseminating information among their constituents. As the matter of expense seemed to be the main objection, in the hope that some gentleman may devise a cheaper, and at the same time, a better mode to attain the desired end, I will move that the further consideration of the subject be postponed until to-morrow.

This motion, the question being then taken, was negatived.

A CONTESTED SEAT.

Mr. HARDIN. I have received a communication from the county of Casey, signed by sev eral gentlemen, and though I do not desire to have any thing to do with the subject, I suppose somebody must have. They have requested me Mr. MACHEN. Before the vote is taken, I to present the communication to the Convention, ask the indulgence of the House merely to reply and to have an enquiry made into the election to the remarks which fell from a gentleman who of the delegate from the county of Casey. I have preceded me. I am for economy, but we are heard the suggestions of my colleague and my here spending the money for the people, and I friend from Madison, and I agree with both of them ask if we have as yet spent a dollar that is to go for that if their statements are true, and I have no their benefit. Members may differ with me in opin- doubt of it, the gentleman present from that counion on the subject, but in my view all our print-ty is entitled to his seat. Yet it is due to those ing heretofore has not resulted and will not result who sent this communication to me, to the good of the people. Here is the first prop-mittee should make an enquiry into the matter. osition introduced, to disseminate throughout the country the proceedings of this Convention, and the debates, discussions, and conclusions at which we arrive here. Now is it not a matter of great importance that the arguments, views, and feel

that a com

The journals read that the Convention received the last certificate of the sheriff, and I agree with the gentleman from Madison, (Mr. Turner,) that the officer had no right to make it; and Í agree also with that gentleman that no man after

he had voted on the first or second day of the election, had a right to come back on the third day and fill out his vote. A voter has a right to abandon the right of suffrage altogether, or to vote for a portion of the offices, but he has no right to come back and fill up a deficient vote. That was the decision in the case of the contested election of Williams and Mason. If it would be satisfactory to the gentlemen, I will move to refer the subject to a select committee. I have no doubt my friend from Casey, (Mr. Coffey,) is entitled to his seat, but his right should be clear and undoubted. We cannot act on a sheriff's cerificate given two months afterwards.

The communication was then read.

edge my inexperience in parliamentary usage, but it does seem to me that common sense, and everything else that ought to govern such a body as this Convention, requires that the gentleman should retain his seat without interruption.

Mr. HARDIN. My honorable friend last up did not understand me, I presume. These are not fictitious names, I presume, and the gentleman from Casey can answer whether there are any such gentlemen. I have never heard of them, before I received their communication through the post office to-day. They claim an investigation into the subject, and if they are voters in Casey county, it is due to them that they should have that investigation, and the matter not be laid on the table. We owe it to ourselves to judge of the qualification and election of Delegates here. As I said before, I concur with the gentleman from Madison, in understanding the law to provide that a man who voted on Monday or Tuesday, and did not fill out his vote for Delegate, has no right to come back on Wednesday and fill it out. In this case, I understand that four gentlemen who abandoned the right to vote on the first day, came back on the last day and voted; and that made the result a tie. If that was the case-and I have no doubt of the fact-the gentleman is entitled to his seat; but it was due to all concerned that the matter should be reported upon by a committee. Another reason is, that I protest against the power of the sheriff, after he has made one return, some months after to give another. His official duties ceased in the first instance, and he had no right to give another. I desire the committee to examine and report on these facts; and, for one, I will vote that no man who did not give a full vote on Monday, has a right to come back and fill it out on Wednesday. I had the good, or bad fortune-in the case of the contested seat of Williams and Mason-to hold a seat in the Senate, and I voted for the report of the committee; and, in fact, drew up every word of it, which distinctly laid down this principle. I think the gentleman entitled to his seat, but we owe it to the people to enquire about it, and I think the gentleman himself should consent to it, and let the fact appear on the Journals. I am a thousand times obliged to my friend over the way (Mr. Hargis,) for the information he has given; but perhaps he has not as much experience in parliamentary usage as some of us. I have been about half of my life in parliamentary bodies, but never having expected any elevation to the chair of speaker, or even that of chairman of committee of the whole, I know as little about parliamentary rules as almost any other man.hope the committee will be raised, and the facts reported upon, although not for a moment doubting that the gentleman will retain his seat.

Mr. HARGIS. This is a matter about which I know but little, but I imagine that the Convention does not fully understand all the circumstances in relation to the election in Casey county. It is questionable whether there is any law by which a contested seat, or the right to a seat in this body, can be investigated. I certainly have doubts on the subject, and in the absence of any certainty in regard to it, from the best information we have in relation to this election, it is to be presumed that the gentleman has come here by the consent and will of the majority of the voters of the county of Casey. When the gentleman presented his certificate, and claimed his seat, no one disputed his right to it, provided the sheriff had done his duty. There was no objection, then, that I have heard, to his having received really a majority of the votes of the qualified voters of Casey. That seemed to be conceded, and the only objection made by the gentleman from Madison, was, that the sheriff, perhaps, had not performed his duty. The voters of Casey, it was fair to presume, considered the gentleman entitled to his seat, or they would, I imagine, have taken some legal course in reference thereto, under the laws in relation to contested seats in the Legislature. Nothing of the kind has been done, and the gentleman's claim to the seat appears to have been fully acquiesced in by the people of Casey. When the vote was taken on the question whether the Delegate from Casey should come forward and take his seat, there was hardly an objection raised, and the Convention appeared to be almost unanimous in conceding that he was legally, and fairly, and honorably entitled to a seat in this body. The gentleman accordingly came to the book, was sworn, and took his seat among us. Would it be right now, and in accordance with parliamentary usage, and the habits, customs, and dignity of bodies of this character, after doing what this Convention has done after we have, as we supposed, taken into consideration all the circumstances we could get possession of in relation to this election-would Mr. COFFEY. I not only concur with my it seem right and reasonable that we should take friend from Nelson, but I ask myself the apbarely the suggestions of a few gentlemen from pointment of a committee to examine into this some place we do not know whether from Ca- case. Let them take the whole of the papers sey, or in fact anywhere else, for we can know and certificates before them, and report the truth nothing about the names attached to that paper in regard to the matter. I discover that many -and go on and interrupt the business of the members of the House are only in possession of Convention by the appointment of a select com- a part of the facts. Frequent reference has been mittee, to enquire into the legal right of the gen-made to the case as if these four votes impropertleman to his seat? Such a proceeding, it ap-ly cast, alone authorized me to come here. pears to me, would be rather useless. I acknowl-But there were other votes in my favor. I

PROPOSITIONS TO AMEND.

Mr. DIXON offered the following, which on his motion was postponed and ordered to be printed.

Resolved, That the judicial officers of the State of Kentucky should be elected by the people; but, to avoid the exercise of any improper influence over the Judges, in the discharge of their official duties, by those who may have taken part in their elections, it is expedient to incorporate into the Constitution a provision, requiring the judges, living in two adjoining districts, to preside alternately in each of the

Courts of such districts.

Resolved, That it is the deliberate and fixed opinion of this Convention, that no provision or amendment, which shall have the effect to restrict the right of free and equal suffrage, as it now exists, or to change the conditions by which it may be now acquired, according to the Constitution of Kentucky, ought to be inserted in any Constitution which may be proclaimed by this Convention.

Mr. DIXON offered the following as a substistute for the proposition of Mr. Davis, in relation to naturalization.

WHEREAS, The people of the United States, in the 1st article and 8th section of the Federal Constitution, have given to Congress the exclusive power to establish a uniform rule of naturalization; and whereas, it was contemplated by the framers of the Constitution of the United States, that the citizen naturalized should, in all respects, touching the right of suffrage, be placed on an equal footing with the native born citizen. Therefore,

Resolved, That it would be inexpedient to incorporate into the Constitution of Kentucky, any principle whereby any invidious distinction should be made in favor of the native born over the naturalized citizen, in the exercise of the right of suffrage.

Mr. DAVIS. I will merely say to the gentleMr. ROOT submitted the following proposi- man in regard to these propositions, that when tion, which on his motion was postponed, re- the time comes for their consideration, let them ferred to the committee of the whole, and order-be taken up in their order, and then ed to be printed.

1. Resolved, That any inhabitant of this State who shall hereafter be engaged in a duel, either as principal or accessary, shall forever be disqualified as an elector, and from holding any office under the Constitution and laws of this State; and may be punished in such other manner as shall be prescribed by law.

"Lay on Macduff."

Mr. DIXON. I will only say to the gentleman that when the time comes Macduff will be in his place.

Mr. C. A. WICKLIFFE. I have only to say that wherever Macduff or Macbeth may be, a Kentucky citizen will be in his place.

Mr. GHOLSON offered the following resolutions, which were postponed and ordered to be printed, viz:

Resolved, That special pleading, in all Courts of Justice in this Commonwealth, should be abolished; that a speedy and impartial trial by a jury of the vicinage, upon the merits of his case, should be secured to every citizen.

Resolved, That, to this end, Chancery Courts should be abolished.

2. Resolved, That the General Assembly shall not, in any manner, create any debt or debts, liability or liabilities, which shall singly or in the aggregate, with any previous debts or liabilities, exceed the sum of dollars, except in case of war, to repel invasion, or suppress insurrection, unless the same shall be authorized by some law for some single object or work, to be distinctly specified therein; which law shall provide ways and means, exclusive of Resolved, That a constitutional provision, loans, for the payment of the interest of such which shall (within a reasonable time) quiet the debt or liability as it falls due; and also to pay titles of the occupants of lands, as to the adand discharge the principal of such debt or lia-verse claims of all persons not laboring under bility within years from the time of the con- some legal disability, is indispensably necessary tracting thereof; and shall be irrepealable until to the well-being and prosperity of the good the principal and interest thereon shall be paid citizens of this Commonwealth. and discharged; but no such law shall take effect until, at a general election, it shall have been submitted to the people, and have received a majority of all the votes cast for and against it at such election; and all money raised by authority of such law shall be applied only to the specific object therein stated, or to the payment of the debt thereby created; and such law shall be published in at least one newspaper in each judicial district, if one is published therein, throughout the State for months preceding the election at which it is submitted to the people.

Resolved, That the jurisdiction of Justices of the Peace should be increased to dollars.

Resolved, That it is expedient to lay off the State of Kentucky into four districts, in each of which the Appellate Court shall hold two terms annually.

Resolved, That the concurrence of a majority of the Appellate Judges should be necessary to a reversal of the opinion of an inferior tribunal.

Mr. CHAMBERS offered the following which were ordered to be printed and made the order of the day for to-morrow:

1. Resolved, That no part of the present ConstiMr. C. A. WICKLIFFE submitted the follow-tution of Kentucky, nor of any proposed amending, which was ordered to be printed.

ment thereto, shall be referred to any committee,

other than the committee of the whole, until the same has been considered and approved by the Convention as proper to be inserted in, and made a part of, the new or amended Constitution. 2. Resolved, That from and after the 7th instant, the Convention will hold a morning and an evening session each day, meeting for the former o'clock, A. M., and for the latter at o'clock, P. M.

at

RULES OF ORDER.

On the motion of Mr. MERIWETHER, the Convention proceeded to the consideration of the report of the select committee of a series of rules for the government of the Convention.

The 1st 2d 3d and 4th rules were read and passed without amendment.

his own propositions. There may not be any harm done in the case of our President, but there is a good book which says, we ought not to lead a man into temptation. And I think this warning is particularly applicable in politics. I do not wish to lead our honorable President into too much temptation.

There is an additional reason, according to my view of the subject, why this portion of 3. Resolved, That, until otherwise ordered, the the rules ought not to be adopted. We all know morning sessions of the Convention shall be de--although there is no member who will admit voted to hearing, receiving, and referring such that he is under such influence-that when a portions of the existing Constitution as may be man is made President of the United States, or the deemed worthy of re-adoption, and of amend- Governor of a State, or President of a Convention, ments to the same, the reports of committees, the official station gives him a certain degree of &c., and that immediately on assembling in the influence, and in the case of a presiding officer afternoon, the Convention will go into commit- his opinions ought never to be known; he ought tee of the whole upon such matters as may have to be an impartial umpire; at all events his opinbeen referred to it, and so continue until ad- ions ought not to be known till the debate journment. is over and the vote taken. I have always thought that the rule which gives to the Speaker of the House of Representatives of Kentucky the right to vote is improper. You find nothing of the kind in the British Parliament nor in Congress. You find nothing of the kind in ancient legislative bodies. It is a rule that has been adopted in modern times, and one which, as I have myself seen, exerts an improper influence. The presiding officer is looked up to by the members of the body over which he presides, and when you permit him to come upon the floor and debate a proposition, and then go back to the chair and decide upon it, you destroy his usefulness and his impartiality as a presiding officer. With these suggestions, I will renew my motion to strike out the latter clause of the sixth rule. I should be gratified, when in comments of the Constitution, to hear the views of our President expressed. I believe that his views very nearly, if not entirely, correspond with my own. I do not make this motion with any hostility to our presiding officer, or from a belief that he has any disposition to do wrong, but I do it because I think that the principle, if carried out, will have a pernicious and corrupting influence. And in this, the highest deliberative body that can be assembled in the State, there ought to be no exemption from an adherence to the practice which has invariably been followed in the most enlightened legislative bodies in the world.

The 5th was amended verbally by the substitution of the word may for shall, so as to provide that "the President may examine and correct the journal before it is read."

The 6th rule being under consideration in

these words:

"6. He shall have the right to name any mem"ber to perform the duties of the Chair but such "substitution shall not extend beyond a day, or "over one adjournment; and when not occupy-mittee of the whole upon the proposed amend"ing the Chair, he may submit propositions and "participate in debate.”

Mr. TURNER moved to strike out the words, "and when not occupying the chair, he may submit propositions and participate in debate."He said, I make this motion because it is giving a power to the President, and a right that is without precedent, as far as I know and believe, in any deliberative body in the United States, either of Church or State. It is very improper, according to my notion of the duties of a presiding officer. A presiding officer ought to understand thoroughly, the rules of the body over which he presides, and he ought to understand parliamentary law. It is his duty to be well versed in these, and to pay more attention to the duties of the chair than to any other. Our presiding officer, for whose appointment I myself voted, I have no doubt, is well versed in the duties belonging to his station, but like many individuals in his position, he is, I apprehend, a little rusty in a good many things. I make this remark, not as being applicable to that gentleman in particular, for no one in this Convention has a greater share of my regard than he has, but it appears to me, that our presiding officer ought to have his attention devoted exclusively to the discharge of the duties of the chair, in the preservation of order, and not to come down to the floor of the House, in order to bring forward propositions and argue them, throwing his weight and influence in their favor, and then to go back and take the chair, and decide upon

Mr. MERIWETHER. With due deference to

the opinions of my friend from Madison, I would suggest that he is under a misapprehension, if he supposes that whenever the President has left the chair, we are in committee of the whole.

Mr. TURNER. I mean that it is so in substance.

Mr. MERIWETHER. In substance then I differ with the gentleman, as much as in shadow. In substance, we shall not be in committee of the whole; for although the President may leave his seat, yet the previous question is applicable, so that in substance the convention will not be in committee of the whole. The gentleman will remember that we are depriving the City of Louisville of the service of one of its delegates by depriving him of the right to participate in debate upon propositions that are offered here. This is different from a Legislative body. There

the Constitution makes it incumbent upon the proper share of weight in this Convention-by body to select one of their number to preside.- having one of her representatives elected to preNot so here. No man supposed that the Presi-side over the body. Unless Louisville claims to dent of this convention was to be deprived of do the whole business of the Convention, I any of his rights by his elevation to the Chair. Will you deprive him of the right which every other member enjoys of discussing propositions and submitting propositions merely because you have elevated him to that seat? Will you require the President to vote upon propositions without giving reasons for or against them?That is the question. Many important propositions will be made in Convention which will not be made in committee of the whole, and the President of the Convention will be required to record his vote for or against them; and yet you will not permit him to assign his reasons. I ask is it right to place your presiding officer in that position?