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the Senate to accept of the amendments, or to ive such reasons for the rejecting them as might induce this House more willingly to recede from them. Mr. Wright was in favor of receding from the amendments, rather than that the passage of the bill should be delayed. He believed, though the Government would incur a greater expense, by the course proposed, the men would sooner be raised; as every officer who entered the service. would find it his duty zo promote the enlistment of the men; and as the object was of magnitude, we ought not to regard the expense. Mr. Little wished to make a few observations on this question. The subject of difference between the two Houses was a mere matter of expense. If we recede from these amendments, all the officers for the thirteen regiments will have to be at once appointed. The advantages of this course ought to be compared with the expense, in order to see which will preponderate. In his opinion, the filling up of the ranks would depend very much on the character of the officers appointed. If we are immediately to go to war, he thought the advantages to be derived from an early appointment of the officers would be of more consequence that the expense. Much had been said about the opinion of the Executive as to the number of men necessary to be raised; he thought this branch of the Government as well able to judge of the proper force to be raised as the Executive, being acquainted with the different parts of the country, and the most vulnerable parts of it. He was in favor of receding from the amendments.” Mr. Maxwell was in favor of raising an additional force; but could not agree to abandon these amendments. When this subject was first agitated, it appeared that the Executive was in favor of raising ten thousand men only. He was, therefore, in favor of the number reported by the Committee on Foreign Relations; finding there was a great variety of opinion, however, he consented to vote for fifteen thousand men, by way of accommodation. The Senate outstripped this House in their movements in this business, and sent down a bill proposing to raise twentyfive thousand men. He was opposed to this number, on account of its being so much larger thanhad been asked for by the Executive, and he believed this was the opinion of many others; however, when the proposition made by the Speaker for limiting the number os officers to be appointed, was agreed to, he voted for the bill, as he conceived many others had done so, that the bill might pass by as large a majority as possible. What has been the conduct of the Senate on this occasion ? Have they aeted in anything like a spirit of conciliation ? They say, pass the bill it the shape in which we send it to you, or not an all. He, for one, would not agree to pass it in this way. He made as great a sacrifice of opinion as he was willing to do. There is a point beyond which, he trusted, this House could not be driven. He had no desire to see an army of officers, without soldiers to command, which would be the

. if these amendments were struck out of the bill. - Mr. Bibb said, if in the commencement of a war with England, we are to be regardless of expense, the war will terminate, either before its commencement, or soon after. Whether a disposition to produce such an effect had given rise to this difference between the two Houses, was not his province to determine ; but in the very act of making war against England for aggressions, he was unwilling to submit to the usurpations of any other body. He found, by the Constitution, that all money bills must originate with the House of Representatives; yet the Senate has passed a bill incurring an expense of eight, nine, or ten millions of dollars, which we have amended; but which they send back to us, saying: “We will expend ten millions, or nothing.” as not this reversing the order of things?. It certainly belongs to this House, to provide the ways and means, and to judge of the ability of the nation to raise them. He hoped, therefore, the House would not recede. Mr. GRUNDY said, if he had been opposed to the bill from the Senate, he should be in favor of receding from these amendments. Though it is the business of this House to originate moneybills, the gentleman from Georgia had carried his ideas on this subject too far. We, as the immediate Representatives of the people, are supposed to be the best judges of what is proper in this respect; but it does not follow, that the other branch of the Legislature shall not originate any bill which may call for money from the Treasury. They have this right, and we have the right to act upon such bills, when they come before us, as we think proper. Let us examine, said Mr. G., whether the Senate have not acted properly in rejecting these amendments, and whether true economy will not be consulted by agreeing to the present motion. We had determined that less than one-half the officers should be appointed at present, and afterwards, when a certain portion of the men shall be raised, the balance. If we shall be engaged in war, is it believed that twenty-five thousand men will be too many 3 Certainly not. Would it not, then, be consulting economy and despatch to raise a sufficiency of men at once 2 For, if you send a force to Canada, you must leave a part of your men to guard your posts at home. The force ought to be fully sufficient; if it were not, defeat might be the consequence. This bill, said Mr. G., came from the Senate; we have amended it; they disagree to our amendments, and ask us to recede. And if we do not, a verbal war is to be carried on between the two Houses. Rather than this should take place, he would be for now yielding a little on the score of numbers, and insure the passage of the bill, which might otherwise be endangered." Besides, this disagreement between the two Houses would exhibit us in an unfavorable light, not only to our own constituents, but to foreign countries. Great

Britain would be ready to * “Republican Amer‘ica can never go to war. Their Congress would

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“rather hold a verbal conflict among themselves ‘than engage in war'with any nation whatever.” Mr. Smilie hoped the House would not recede from their amendments, The gentleman, from Maryland (Mr. Wright) had said the object is great, and we ought not to talk about expense. He knew as well as that gentleman that war could not be carried on without expense. This is not the question. The question is, whether we will submit to an unnecessary expense? The gentleman from Tennessee (Mr. GRUNDy) has told us we ought to agree with the Senate, lest we hazard the loss of the bill. If this should be the case, on whom will the responsibility rest? Where it ought to rest. Have we not shown every disposition to accommodate the Senate, at the same time that we endeavored to guard against unnecessary expense ? How will the bill stand if the amendments be stricken out 7. It will be an excellent bill for officers, but not for men. There will be an army of officers without men. Would it injure the service if these amendments remain He thought not. He had doubts whether the twelve hundred men for six regiments would be raised for twelve months from this time; and all this time the nation would be saddled with the expense of the officers for all the thirteen regiments. If this were economy, he did not understand it. It will be remembered, said Mr. S., that all power rests with the people. Their opinion supports those in power; and when that changes, they will choose those whose opinions correspond with their own. - Mr. S. said when he looked forward to the day when we should have to call upon the people for taxes to support this expense, or, at least, to pay the interest of it—for he hoped it was not intended to borrow money to pay the interest as well as principal–he expected great murmuring. For we must have internal taxes; no one thought of any other source. All goes on very smoothly at present; but the trying time will be when the supplies come to be raised. He was willing to enter into this war; but he was unwilling to expend one shilling unnecessarily. Mr. Troup was in favor of receding, because, in doing so, he believed the raising of the troops would be expedited; for, if two hundred officers could raise ten thousand men in a given time, four hundred officers could raise twenty thousand in the same time. He could not help replying to a remark of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. SMille,) that gentlemen were all for economy. Mr. T. was not for a war of economy, but a war of vigor. All wars are necessarily expensive. The more feeble and protracted they are, the greater will be the expense; and the expense is less, in proportion, as they are short and vigorous. If we are not to have an energetic war, let us have no war. He believed the resources of this country are adequate to any war. Compare the situation of the country with what it was in 1775. Our population now consists of seven millions of active, enterprising individuals, carrying on a commerce second only to one nation in the world ; then, our population was only three mil12th Con. 1st SEss.-23

lions, with a feeble colonial commerce, and the people miserably poor in everything but a spirit of liberty. What did they do? If gentlemen will recur to the Journals of that day, they will discover that, when Congress had a formidable army

ready to march, they had not a dollar of revenue,

and the people were too indigent to raise money. Congress had to issue bills of credit to the amount of two millions of dollars. If it be thought we cannot raise the necessary supplies, we had better do at once, what, perhaps, we shall find it necessary to do, if we refuse to recede from these amendments—submit. Mr. Widgery said, had not these amendments been made to the bill, the minority on its passage would have been much larger than it was. Until gentlemen shall come forward and offer some good reason for agreeing to the present, motion, he should be opposed to it, believing this House to be as good judges of what was right as the other. Indeed, if there be safety in a multitude of counsellors, we have the advantage. He did not believe the loss of the bill would be hazarded by refusing to recede; it would bring on a conference. He was willing to go as far as was necessary in raising troops, but he wished to avoid all unnecessary expense. Mr. Roberts said the question had now resolved itself into the shape in which he wished to have had it before, when the bill was under discussion. The vote will now be whether we will agree to raise an army of twenty-five thousand men, and all the officers, complete; at a time, too, when nothing has been done towards arming the militia or raising volunteers, and when, from the present situation of things, not much is to be expected on those subjects. The measures which have been taken for putting ourselves in a state for meeting a war, arose from the Message of the President at the commencement of the session. The Committee of Foreign Relations, who had this subject under consideration, recommended the filling up of the present Military Establishment, raising an additional military

|force, the acceptance of volunteer corps, and arm

ing and disciplining the militia. The Senate reported a bill, and matured it, for raising an additional military force, but he had not heard that. they had taken any step respecting the militia or volunteers. We first agree to raise what appeared to him the most objectionable force—which, he feared, would prevent due attention being paid to the volunteers and militia. He, therefore, thought it would be improper, in this stage of the business, for the House to recede. The Senate, it would be recollected, is a part of the Executive branch of the Government, and the difference now between the two Houses is, whether all the officers shall be at once, appointed. Perhaps they felt a desire on this subject, arising from their Executive duty. He should wish to be satisfied on this point by a conference before he agreed to recede. "Mr. Calhoun said that the House had already decided that twenty-five thousand men were necessary. The only question at present is a ques-

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tion of expense. Can any gentleman say what
the difference of expense will be 7 He believed
it would be very inconsiderable. The question
of peace or war must be decided in three or four
months, and several weeks would pass before the
appointments could be made. Congress would
spend more in deliberating on this subject than
the difference of expense would amount to. In
case the whole of the officers be appointed, the
recruiting service will go on much better than it
would otherwise do. . If, said Mr.C., we be seri-
ous on the question of war, we ought not to stickle
about an expense of twenty or thirty thousand
dollars. If a temper of this kind is to prevail in
the House, it will show that we are not-fit to
manage the affairs of the nation. He knew the
expenses of war were considerable, and they will
be so, at all events; but a war carried on with
vigor would be less so than one carried on in a
feeble, ineffective way. If gentlemen were alarm-
ed at a measure of this kind at the commence-
ment of our preparations, we had better proceed
no further. -
Mr. RANDolph said he would make a motion
which would supersede the one before the House.
It was, that the further consideration of the sub-
ject should be indefinitely postponed.
Mr. RANDolph made this motion, not from a
wish to impede the progress of the public busi-
ness, but from a sense of that duty, from a per-
formance of which he trusted he should never be
found to shrink. He made the motion, becaus
he held a standing army to be, in itself, uncon
nial with a Republican Government; becaus
held this Government, as at present constituted,
to be incapable, under existing circumstancé
carrying on, to any practical national effec
eign offensive war. He made the motion,
because the course pursued by the two House
Congress, is a course not required by the circu
stances of the country, nor by that branch ps
Government which must be intrusted ultimate
with the employment of the force proposed to
raised. It appeared to him, that, of late years,
novelties the most strange and unaccountable had
daily grown up in the two Houses of Congress.
In the first place, we undertake, by law, to en-
ter into stipulation with a foreign Power, not
binding upon that Power, but binding, only upon
ourselves. To do, by law, that to which the Ex-
ecutive power alone is competent, and that which
could be carried into effect by the treaty-making
power only. Now we are undertaking to say,
that the Executive Government of the United
States is either ignorant of the true interests of
the country, or incapable of carrying on the busi-
ness of the nation, or unwilling to do that which
the public interest demands. This is the subject
of your bill.
After you have raised these twenty-five thou-
sand men—if he might reason on an impossibility;
for it had, he thought, been demonstrated that
these men could not be raised, it would be an
army on paper only—shall we form a commit-
tee of this House, in quality of a Committee of

the Speaker (he should not wish it in safer hands)
to carry on the war 7 Shall we declare, that
the Executive not being capable of discerning the
public interest, or not having spirit to pursue it,
we have appointed a committee to take the Pres-
ident and Cabinet into custody? - Gentlemen talk
of marching and countermarching these troops,
as if they would have any control over them;
though they will have none, except, indeed, that
they might withhold the supplies for their support,
and by this means, oblige the Executive to dis-
band them; but as to how, or where, or when
they shall be employed, this House has no con-
trol whatever. -
It was far from his expectation, when he came
to the House this morning, that he should have
said anything on this bill. He did not know or
expect that it would be taken up. But he did
consider a standing army to be in itself not merely
uncongenial, but deadly, to the spirit of a free
Government; and he believed that the first man
of an adventurous, unprincipled character, who
got into the chair of our Government, with even
half the number of men now proposed to be raised,
at his back, will make the experiment in which
Catiline failed, but in which Caesar, Cromwell,
and Bonaparte succeeded. And shall we be told
that there is no danger of a man, of this descrip-
tion getting into the chair of Government? Is its
Woo. to carry your recollection to the past?
Is it necessary to state that a man, of the very
description which had been mentioned, had been
within one vote of becoming President of the
United States?
A standing army is the life and soul of a mili-
tary despot. Will any man deny it? Can des-
potism exist without it ! Is it not the pabulum
on which it lives, and moves, and has its being 7
It has ever been dangerous to limited monarch-
ies—he spoke of hereditary monarchies. Look
for the fact, said he, in all the authorities—the
good, old doctrines of the Whigs, before power
had corrupted them and they had apostatized from
their principles. And if a standing army be dan-
erous to liberty in an hereditary monarchy, where
the first seat in society is guarded by ancient pre-
judices, by moral restraints, and physical force;
if in a form of Government like this, where the
Chair of State is filled by a King Log, a standing
army be dangerous to liberty, what must it be in
a Government like ours ? In a Government like
that of England, it is almost impossible for an
usurper to get at the throne. How is he to get
there? He dare not even imagine the King's
death. But here, such a character has only to
wait four-years, to be inducted, in form, to your
chair; the door is always open to him.
We hear much, said Mr. R. about the conduct of
the Congress of 75. In 75 the soil of this country
was polluted by the tread of our enemy; and if an
event of the same kind were to take place now, let
the Congress of 1812 give only the signal, and
there would be no difficulty in raising one hundred
thousand men, more than we could victual, and
clothe, and arm. But the circumstances under

Public Safety, or shall we depute the power to

which this army is proposed are very different.


JANUARY, 1811.

The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. SMILie) has told the House that this army is to be provided for by internal taxes. He had been excting this. The moment this bill becomes a aw, you will hear the flap of the orhinous wings of the Treasury pouncing upon your table, with projects of land tax, excise, hearth, tax, window tax. Excise not merely on whiskey—that great necessary of life, but upon leather, candles, &c., &c., in all the forms of oppression and extortion, so that the habitation of a man will no longer be his castle. For this reason he wished the consideration of this bill postponed, that the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Bacon, the chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means) might lay before the House his budget for meeting the expenses of the war; so that the House may not, in the first instance, be entrapped by agreeing to raise an army, and then be told, they have nothing left to do, but to provide a system of internal taxation. ...And for what expense are you to provide 3. The principal 7 No; the bare interest of the principal only. We are to have a vast army—double the amount of that proposed to be raised in '98—internal taxes, eight per cent. Ioans, and no Federalism. I pray ou, said Mr. R., of what sort of things is this ederalism compounded? What are its elements? You have your choice of two alternatives. Gen

tlemen must either stop on the good old Virginia.

ground, or they must scout it, and go into Federalism, and adopt Federal doctrine to its full extent. They must take one or the other; and if they be prepared for this system of internal taxation—this system of patronage—this vast Army and Navy, and the point of honor—he spoke of honor as between nations—it is hardly worth while to keep up the old distinction. With regard to loans. He should be sorry on the general subject of finance, or perhaps on any other, to pretend to an equal degree of information with the very extraordinary man at the head of our Treasury Department. He never had any doubt of his ingenuity He believed that what could be done, he would effect. He would ven. ture to affirm, however, for though his sources of information were not equal to those of the Secretary, he had no doubt of their correctness, that he cannot borrow money to the extent of our wants. It is not be to had abroad we all know; and it is not to be had at home. It is very easy for a man, or a nation, in full credit, who pays punctually, to borrow either small or large sums; but announce to the world that you have no resort, but to borrow, and you will soon find the barometer of your credit fall. What is the proposition, Mr. R. asked, which the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures has brought forward for importing from Great Britain and her possessions, articles ordered, or said to be ordered, previous to the 2d of February last ! It is said, to enable us to comply with our treaty with the Indians, in furnishing them with the customary articles. But it is, in fact, to get blankets and woollens for our soldiery and revenue nto our Treasury. It is to get a supply of arti

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cles, which we confess we have not, and to receive the duties on impost and tonnage. How does this square 7 Look at your revenue before you undertook to interfere with commerce, and look at it now, and you will find that nearly one half of your revenue is destroyed by your own act. Mr. R. said he had listened with attention, whenever his health would permit, to the arguments of gentlemen in favor of this bill." He find heard nothing of any weight until his worthy friend from South Carolina (Mr. Williams) spoke the other day. Nothing which had not been repeated at least one hundred times before, and much better said; and there was such a similarity between the debates of this time and on a former occasion, that the whole appeared like an old story. As a friend and old fellow-laborer in political opinion, he was highly gratified by the speech of the gentleman from South Carolina; but, except on the subject of the Orders in Council, he did not recollect that he had said anything either new or convincing. After the fascination of his animated manner had passed off, he had searched his mind for anything else in vain. He listened to have heard a word on the subject of

the French decrees, either governmental or mu

icipal, or on the stipulations of the present Emperor of France towards the United States. He listened also for something on the subject of the letter of the Duke de Cadore to our Minister; but he listened in vain. He heard nothing but the old story that the West Indies would no longer be worth cultivating, and that the manufacturers of Birmingham and Manchester would compel the British Ministry to yield to our demands, This had been the standing order of the day for six years past. The gentleman from South Carolina called the attention of the House to a commerce, which we need never again look for. As we have undertaken to force manufactures here, so has the Emperor of France undertaken to force them ; and as we have refused to supply England with raw materials, she has sought for supplies in other quarters. He looked upon our export of cotton to be as dead as that of indigo. We shall have no market for it hereafter, but to supply our own consumption; except they will take it from us in China, which can scarcely be expected. The gentleman from South Carolina says, that it takes all the profits of our trade with other cöuntries, to pay the annual balance due to England. To men of practical minds, what does this fact prove? It proves that this balance was essential to our interest. It proves that we all know, that a capital is necessary to a man who is devoid of one; and England, being the first commercial nation in the world, furnishes us with a capital which we want, as Holland, in former times, used to furnish capital for the other nations of Europe. It is as plain as any proposition in mathematics, that where two nations trade together, the one rich and the other poor, the one yielding raw materials, and the other manufactures in a finished state, that the trade of superior wealth and refinement is necessary to the nation


H. of R. of inferior wealth. Do you want an illustration? Which is most necessary in America—blankets and rifles or furs ? Suppose the savage on our Northwestern frontier would not let us have their furs, they would not get our blankets and rifles. Do not gentlemen see the avidity, notwithstanding all the difficulties attending the trade, and the consequent high prices, with which British manufactures are purchased here? The gentleman from South Carolina has founded a strong argument, in the reduced price of this cotton, for resisting the Orders in Council. But the low price of his cotton is no proof of the depreciation of British manufactures. - But we are to go to war to conquer the liberty of the sea—France having tried this in vain. France, with an army of a million of men, with Bonaparte, Massena, and other famous generals at their head, having failed in this enterprise, some of our famous colonels are determined to succeed. This appears farcical. But as to the principle of the Orders in Council, take France out of the way, and he believed there would be no hesitation in resisting them. The question has been, shall we resist the minor, and put up with the major injury? But, situated as we are, he would resist the Orders in Council. But he saw no connexion between an army o twenty-five or fifty thousand men, and a repeal of the Orders in Council. * * Suppose the Chinese had as great a maritime force in their seas as the British have in the Atlantic ocean, and China was at war with Japan, and had passed similar orders with the British. We have no trade to Japan; she has some decree, either governmental or municipal, to prevent our going there; would his friend from South Carolina, whose heroic spirit and manly mind he admired, undertake to compel the Chinese, with a population of three hundred and fifty millions of subjects and a large fleet of ships-of-the-line, by passing a law to raise twenty-five thousand men, to repeal her restrictive orders against our com

merce? This would be outQuixoting Quixote|

himself; and outheroding all our former Herodings. With a law for raising twenty-five thou. sand men, whom you cannot raise, you are to set out on an expedition to conquer the liberty of the sea; and where? He did not know whether he understood his friend from South Carolina; but he seemed to have some project in his mind—thetorpedoes having failed, he supposed he had got. ten some other new invented machinery to be put in motion by the Falls of Niagara; but what it was he understood not. * There is one view of the subject, which he must be permitted to take. No wise man would undertake any important measure until he first calculated the manner of effecting his object, and, considered the situation in which he would be placed after his purpose was attained. Mr. R. would overlook every other consideration. He would indulge gentlemen in their most romantic notions of success. He would consider the American standard as hoisted on the walls of Quebec,

Additional Military Force.

JANUARY, 1812.

What have you got, at an immense expense of blood and treasure ? a national curse! You will, to be sure, have done a favor to Canada. You will have purchased, at a dear rate, her independence. This is very benevolent and philanthropic—and might be a very proper consideration for a quaker meeting or philanthropic society, but not for this body. But after Canada shall be conquered, commerce could not be forced into that inhospitable climate; and yet we are to bring upon ourselves land taxes, excise, and internal taxes of every description, to obtain it. • Are there no limits, asked Mr. R., to the territory over which Republican government may be extended ? Is it, like space, indefinite in its extent 2 He believed that whenever the valley of the Mississippi came to be filled up, we should find our mistake on this subject. * You are laying the foundation for a secession from the Union—on the north, by the possession of Canada, and on the borders of the Ohio, for another division. The Ohio has been made the line between the slaveholding States and those which hold no slaves. He need not call the attention of the House to this distinction, nor to the jealousies and animosities growing out of the subject. * * * - Mr. R. said, if he thought these twenty-five thousand men could effect their object; if they could be raised; if being raised, they would not be more dangerous than the Orders in Council or rench decrees, he might have been disposed to avor the passage of this bill. But why should gentlemen wish to raise a larger force than the Executive wants—than he is disposed to use ? For, with all his jealousies Executive power, when we go to war, we must do one of the two things: We must either give the President such a military and naval force, and let him use it; or, if he decline using it, remove him and put some man in his place who will use it. There is no other alternative. Will any one suggest any other ? You have an agent to execute certain business, he asks from you a certain amount for effecting the business on hand, you give him double-you force it upon him—you compel him to waste it. Would not this be deemed extraordinary conduct in an individual 2 If we place, confidence in the

Executive, we ought to act up to his views, and

not adopt measures to force him beyond the point to which he is willing to go. Mr. R. felt an utter incapacity to do a proper degree of justice to his sentiments on this subject; but he could not suffer the bill to pass without making one more attempt to put it in the power of the House to retrace their steps from this illadvised measure. We are going to war—going to raise twentyfive thousand men—going to sweep away His Majesty's Government from the British Provinces. He sometimes was ready to persuade himself that he must be laboring under a mental derangement—that the thing could not be. What! raise twenty-five thousand men for this purpose ;

and even at Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

when it takes you from the 5th of November to

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