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** founded upon a system of general policy, “ with very bad effects, and he was by, no "and not local interest ; for he was there means fond of the idea of encouraging not as a man locally interested by the " the practice. In order to show that the

views of any particular place, or any one "country might be sufficiently supplied "15 set of men, but as one of the members of with grain, he adverted to the excellent " parliament for the United Kingdom, and "effects that had resulted from Mr. Wesit as such be could not see any advantage to "tern's act by the increase of agriculture. * be derived from the substitution proposed, “ He was a wise ininister that assented to

but did apprehend a great deal of mischief. " that act, and resisted the clamour raised ««• The boni baronet then adverted to the against it at the time. Though the im. « great advantage that resulted to the reve- "s mediate effect of that might have been to

nue from the grain distillery, and asked, " raise the price of corn, yet the ultimate " whether with all this proht from the land- « effect was to revder it cheaper, as it ena. holders, besides the property tax and "s bled the landholder to raise corą upon & others, it was a wise or a just measure to " those acres upon which none could other« throw any obstacle in the way of the cul- " wise bave been produced. He mention46 tivation of land, and to diminish its pro- ed, as another reason, the improvement 5* duce. With respect to the sugar distila “ in the breed of cattle, by which in Scot

lery, great as the injury would be to the " land, and other places, double the quanti«« lauded interest, this boon would be pro- " ty of meat was produced, with the same 4. ductive of very little advantage to the " quantity of animal provisions, so that much * growers of sur. The high price of bar- " less land was necessary for, pasture, and .44 ley and other grain in Scotland was part- more was left for the production of grain, "..ly owing to the great quantities that had " of which the prices had never before been "" beeu bought and distilled there, from an so regular. In Devizes, and other places in.

4 apprehension of this prohibition of distil- “ the neighbourhood, more grain laad been 14 lation from grain. As to what bad been “ stored up than ever had been known at

said about the advantage which this prohi- any former period; and the present rise ** bition wonld prove to the people, he ob- " in the price of grain was owing to the per served, that he was of it iotally different “ alarm of the distillers, who bad been buy***(Pojov, and in this he was supported by ing up, and distilling as much of it as pos

Very high authority on the subject. As to “sible, from an apprehension of this mea

the stoppage of foreign insportation, he sure. Still, however, if the proposition * buiped that we might soou have an oppor- " had come from the chancellor of the ex. -* tunity of importing from America, as we “ chequer, or any responsible minister of ** abready night from our own colonies in “ the crown, he would not have been so pon the north of chat continent. But besides " much inclined to persist in objecting to 70% this, the measure might be made use of ' as a precedede for mierference with the

"a discretionary power of stopping the disvec

" tillation from grain, if the circumstances 1.19 production of corn, a thing which it was " of the country should require it, without mfumost important to guard against. „Jf any a reference to the case of the West, India ,19 rwional plan of relief could be proposed planters. But as the proposition came 44 for the West India interesis, he would " from the noble lord it must be considered

gladly concur, in it. : But he could not as founded on the Report of the conimi: 1." consent that they should thus be relieved. " tee, which had been appointed for the L' at the expense of a particular class of the specific purpose of examining what me

coinmunity. The apprehension of such a “ thod of relief could be adopted for the o measure as this bad excited the greatest “ planters. If this discretionary power was 1109. alarm througbout the country; and it was required with the view of atfording such

iniportant in every point of view that is "! selief, and not solely to be directed by the should not receive the sanction of the le. " circumstances of the country, abstracted gislature." =" MR. CHRWEn gave credit " from this consideration, the interests of do the noble lord, for the nanper in which " agriculture must be shaken to the centre,

he had brought it forward; but asked “ without much benefit to the colonies. If, “ how he had cuarę to change his opinion," by the contest in which we were engaged, " and swerys from the Report in one day? many should be turned from commercial & Flowever,, he would not argue from the " to agricultural pursuits, it would be spchs

Report, but take the proposition as it now source of strength to the country that so soud. With respect to the lodging these .", far from its proving tatal to us, we might

discretionary: powers in the crown, be come out of it in a better condition, that * bought that this system was attended before. He mentioned as a propt of this

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the great improvement that had taken " seut circumstances of the country. We

place in the agricultural system of Nor- “ought not to irest eptirely to a future batz sifolk, by which every 7thy acre was employ- “ vest for making up the supply: betore de

ed' in raising winter food for cattle = "rived from foreign countries. While the « in other places: not more than the one. 5. colonies take goods from the mother « hundredth. If the same plan should be “ country to the yalue of ô millions, while << adopted in other places, a sufficient quan- " they paid 9 millions to the revenue, and

tity of meat would be produced to afford “ while the trade employed 20,000 seamért, és half a pound of meat a day to 10 millions sugar had for the last 3 years been selling «i of people!“ MR. MARRYATT could at a price insufficient to support the ex® « not agree with those who thought that pense of cultivation. He referred to the « the interests of the West India planters official papers in the Report, in order to «C'were to be tbrown entirely out of consi- " shew the mistake of those who imagined (5 deration, and maintained that a case of " that too much sugar was raised. - The glut “the utmost distress had been made out by " bad been occasioned by the stoppage of ihe

them. When the account of the Ameri. “ foreign market, and the admission of the 16 can embargo arrived, he, along with sugar of the captured colonies into the

others, as a deputation from the West In- • home market, contrary to the good faith " dia committee, waited on the chancellor which our own colonists had rested. He ** of the exchequer to ask, whether goveru- “ further contended, that there was no in* ment would consent that the restrictions " tention here to relieve one class at the .on the exportation of corn to the colonies expense of another. The landholders

6. would be taken off? And upon this being were in possession of an advantage which ** Tefused, it was suggested that sugar might “ the fortune ot' war had given them, and * de substituted for grain in ti.e distilleries, " they ought, out of that advantage, to allow **as this would be only relieving them with sometising to other subjects of the empire, *s the money that was sent to be paid to fo. on whose interests the war had produced * reigners for corn. It ought to be remem: “ an effect so injurious.", GENERAL 36 bered that in former cominittees on this “ Gascoyne bad understood that the ques. ..subject, the plan went to the breweries “tion had been postponed yesterday, with a and to the distillation of molasses ; at “ view to some compromise, but what that

present it went no farther than the distilo", was he was yet to learn, for he saw from 6. Izries and distillation from sugar; so that “ the agricultural gentlemen nothing but ** the measure was much simplified, and “ the most pointed opposition. But he o the financial difficulties in a great measure " should like io know by whom that com** got rid of. It ought also to be kept in promise was made, or wlio authorised it? ** view, that the committee still continued The committee was no pariy to such a ir its labotirs, and had a report in forward- " compronsise, and the hon. meinber for

ness pointing out a permanent plan of rė. « Norfolk had shewn no inclination to come « lief, by which any recourse to this mea- " into the noble Jord's proposition." But whi sure in future would be rendered unneces. « after all the delusion, and all the clamour gary. He denied that the system of agri

" that had been excited on this subject, iar culture would be deranged, for the crop “ it appeared, after all, from what the

se of this year was in the ground, and before noble Jord said, that the question. was " the next year's 'crop could come in, the « to be discussed without reference to the - It measure would have answered its pur- “ relief of the sugar pl.miters! What had

pose, and of course cease. He also de- as the committee been appointed for bot 10 :** nied that the general interests of the coun- 4. consider of a mode of affording threm re* try would be at all injured, since the « lief? And was he notí to abstain from

quantity of corn thrown into the market stating their distresses ?: The advocate's to would be so much less than what had “ of the high price of provisions refused any s been commonly imported. The hon.ba. “ relief to the planters till a scareity should

isronet opposite had not sufficiently distin: “ take place, when they would humanely « güished between the effects of a tempora- “permit them to share the profitstbey derived ** ry and a permanent measure.' He allow- ir from the distress of the country. If the !saled that if the plan was to be permanent, " planters were to be relieved only i'ly the 1. do it would be injurious, but no such things calamity of the country, he wished ! ley Je was in contemplation. If agricultore had of might be tong without relief }t had been der increased, the population must have kept " said that the colonies were well repiesed pace with it, for the importations had not j« sented in' parliament.' How did that ap# bees-at all diminished, and in the pre 3.pear. There never was any objection lo

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"profit by the high duties imposed on their " the noble lord, by his Resolutions, propo

produce. They were valuable as a sub- “ sed to apply it to the whole of the United

ject of taxation; bat when they became a Kingdom. Many, he said,' were not " subject of legislation, then they were de- aware to what extent the Resolutions

graded as well as injured, as in the in- .“ would go. It was to one paragraph in the

stance of the bill that passed two years ago. “Report that he wished particularly to call .“ After stating the impossibility that the co- " the attention of the house. He then read “ lonies could keep up the competition in " the paragraph that stated the reasons for " the foreign market with the Americans, not applying the measure to Ireland ; and “ who supplied the enemy with the sugar observed, that in this the committee were of their own colonies, the hon. gen. ad. unanimous, and yet the noble lord came verted to the opinion of the representative forward and proposed, that the measure “ of the county of Norfolk, that the sitting should extend to Ireland, without men“ of the committee had raised the price • tioning any ground for this alteration, " of grain. He affirmed, on the contrary, Though gentlemen had been almost put " that had it not been for the sitting of the to the torture in order to extraci evidence “committee, the price would have been dou- from them that the measure might be ap " ble (e loud laugh)--he meant of course, plied to Ireland, yet the result was against " that the rise would have been double. The “ it. He would oppose the Speaker's leaving “ distress of the colonies was not only severe, “ the chair."" THE CHANCELLOR of the but urgent, and the adınission of grain in- “ Excheque observed, hai gentienten “ to the distilleries was the only mode of ear- " had alluded to a compromise. He was

ly relief, and if this was denied at the not aware of any such compromise, nor “ end of the session, all the previous proceed- " had his noble friend, as far as he under

ings could only be considered as a tub stood bim, affirmed that any had taken “ thrown out to amuse the planters." place. If there liad been any compro« ----MR. Chute did not intend, when “ mise, and any discredit attached to it, the " he came into the house, to have said “ hon. general had certainly sliewn that he any thing, but had resolved to leave the

was no party to it, and that one of the os discussion to those who conld do the sub- “ dicredit would rest with him. He underject so much

more justice. But he “ stood his noble friend to have said, that “ could not avoid takiog notice of the as. " he had postponed his resolutions on the

persions which had been cast on the coun- ". former day, from an idea, arising from try gentlemen by the general under the " the nature of the objections, that a trial gallery-a thing the less to be surprised at ought to be made whether the propositions

as coming froin an avowed advocate of the "might not be so framed as i'conciliate s slave trade. The opposition to this mea- gentlemen on both sides. But be certain

sure, he observed, was founded on the Jy had no recollection that his poble friend “clearest and most solid principles, and be pretended that he could compromise the

most conscientiously joined in it. Trade “ matter, or had he any autbority to do so.

might suffer for a time, without any great “ The hon. general had charged bis noble “ loss, to the comraunity, or affecting in a friend with baving left the distress of the "! material degree the general interests. Bat sugar planters out of the question, though it was far otherwise with agriculture : “ the committee had been expressly appoint. " when that was injured the whole country “ed to devise a plan for their relief. He “ must be injured with it. Nothing, there- “ did not think that his noble friend had de

fore, ought to come into competition parted from the character or spirit of the “ with this great national object. This " Report, for the measure was there recon.

measure, if passed, would derange the mended only with a view to the diminishagricultural system, and change the whole !!. ed supply of corn, and a power was ac" method of cropping. The agricultural "cordingly recommended to be vested in " interests ought not surely to pay for the " the crown, to stop the suspension when “ speculations of the colonists. On these " the continuance of it should be inconve.

grounds he would oppose the measure. “ nient or injurious to the agricultural inte" With respect to the imputations of the ge- rests, and not desirable with a view to pre“ neral under the gallery, he would leave . vent a scarcity of foud. If his noble “ it to others to give him a detailed answer." “ friend then felt that a notion prevailed, "Rír. James FITZGERALD would consi- “ that the design was to renunerate the " der the case on the evidence in the Re

sugar planters, and to sacrifice the landed port, where it was recommended not to to the West-India interest, was it nos exextend the measure to Ireland-and yet “pedient that the thing should be placed on

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- its true ground, and that it should be high there, and vice versa, so that the " stated, that, independenţ of the West- same measure of precaution ought to "ladia interest, there were good reasons apply to both. If this had been solely a for the adoption of such a measure? That competition of interests, there was na " was his view of the subject, and the view question the landed interest ought to bole ", of his noble friend, who had kept strictly " the preserenee; but when another inte

to the spirit of the Report. The bon. ge- rest might be prontoted without prejudice “ neral was, however, indignant at the de- to the landed interest, sorely the propo“lay, and said, that from the 1st of July to “sition could not be rejected, merely be" the 1st of Oct., the distilleries would be

a measure, expedient in itself, stopped at any rate. But his noble friend might bappen to afford relief to the sugar “, bere again had only followed the spirit of planters. He agreed, thereíore, that ** the committee's recommendation, for the “ The question ought not to be argued on şi committee had proposed, that the suspen- “ ground of relief to the West Iodia planso sion should commence from the 1st of Ju- ters ; althongh that was not to be thrown “ ly and continue till July the follow. “out of consideration entirely. He then

ing year, still leaving a discretionary “ put it to the judgment of the house,

power with the crown. The proposition " though foriunately there was 2ot at pre¢ of his noble friend, that the distillation sent a scarcity, yet, in the deficiency of “ from sugar should comnience on the 1st “ the means of supply, and the badness of " of July, and continue till Oct., with a " the crop, under the apprehension of a “discretionary power in the crown to con- " possibly scarcity, and the foreign ports

tinue it still further, till 30 days after the “shut against us, whether it was not wise meeting of the next session of parliament, to provide beforehand against the effects

was in substance exactly correspondent to “ of these threatening appearances ? Thi se “ the Report. (Gen. Gascoy:he said across " who put the question on the generat “ the table, that he had understood that principle, did not argue fairly ; for " the sugar was not to be substituted be- " the present was different from ordina

tween July and Oct,, except in a case of ry cases, and hence the hon. baronet's « scarcity). That, indeed, would have af. (sir J. Sinclair) arguments, though they forded some ground for the hon. general's might apply very much to former times,

objection, but his noble friend had express- “ did not at all apply to our present situaLly stated that sugar was to be substituted, " tion. We had been an exporting, we !" and the hon. general might recollect that are now an importing, nasion. The night "s he bad mentioned his intention of propos- " hon. gent, then adverted to the evidence of “ing a reduction of the duty on sagar wash, “ Mr. Ari hur Young, and others, and con« in order to enable the distilleries to em- “ tended that the case was clearly made out, ploy sugar with advantage. Another rea: " that the crop was deficient, and that it was

son for desiring an interval was to consider expedient to adopt some such measure as

how the difficuliy, with respect to Ire- " the present. He denied that the bigh price * Jand, could be got over.

The bon. gent.

“could possibly result from ihe agitation S6 (Mr. Fitzgerald) who had expressed him- " of this question. The effect of that must *. self so strongly with regard to a recom- " have been qaite of a contrary description. « mendation of the committee, which he “ The cause was the scarcity in Scotland, "-considered as an attempt to violate the “ and the different crops in other places. It " act of union, was hardly reasonable in would be improper to bring the measure ** his objection to a compromise, by which “ into operation sooner than the 1st of Jul “ that difficulty was done away, and the as the distillers ought to have time to disa • Resolution proposed in such a shape pose of that grain which they had in suchi f6 as made it a common question with re- a state that it could be applied to no other <spect to both countries. That this ren

He stated that the crop of poKdered the proposition more difficult he at- " tatoes had failed in Ireland, and that by

purpose.

lowed , but when both countries were " the effect of this proposition the people !#united, and the trade in grain perfectly " there would have other food cheaper. The « free between them, it appeared that there " measure ought always to be considered as

was no step that conld be taken to save a temporary one. He admitted that it

the grain here that did not equally apply was his duty to take care of the reventie, 4 to Ireland. When there was abundance " and that this was an important consideias

or scarcity in one country, they would be tion. But he believed that the reyent e 1 equally felt in the other. If the prices " would not suffer materially, and that the f here were high, they must likewise be " ditzealty of the collection in Ireland night

68

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of going into the committee ; but the From the enactment of Mr. Barael's

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"be got over.

hoped, upon the whole, or the price of corn at Waterfordi Hei go" that fbose gentleinen who objected to the “ nerally deprecated the interpositioa of

quarter froin which the proposition came, “the legislature opon subjects of this na" would dismiss from their minds, in con- “ ture. He thought such interposition, in" "sidering the subject, every thing except “ almost every instance, extremely nosions. at its real merits. This was the proper view ". Indeed, experience bad proved that:no-'

of it, and he hoped that no strenuous op. “thing bat imperious necessity could exposition wuld be persisted in."-"MR. coise it. - To such interpositivo be belier."

Ponsonby declared, that, if he had not “ ed it was owing that this country was " read the resolutions proposed by the noble not able to grow sufficient food for Tora, he would have voted for the motio: " its population as it formerly did.

of these resoyutions w35 Sof- " act to " cient to satisfy his mind as to the pro- deprecated was found injurious. As do "priety of an opposite course.

«.the rise which had recently taken place Hemen' on flie other side, he ob. " in the prices of sugar and corn, it appears “served, had taken quite different routes " ed to him to proceed from the specula"to recommend the measure of the noble “ tions likely to arise out of the existence of

lord. One had pleaded for it as necessary a committee upon this subject.""to relieve the West India merchants, “Mr. Fostek stated, in the most un" while another contended that it was called equivocal terms, that he meant to vote " for in order to guard against scarcity: " in opposition to his colleagues. His

To shew that the latter groand was “ reasons were : in the 1st place, he or

erroneous, the right hon. gent. entered " thought it to be contrary to all acknow. into a comparative statement of the prices « ledged maxims of agriculture to say,

of corn, at various periods, particularly si that we should prevent the use of grain " in Ireland; and he also quoted several " in one of its regular channels, merely passages from the evidence taken before < for the benefit of the West India coloThe committee to prove that this ground " nists; and in the 20 place, if there were was quite untenable. As to the reliet « any ground for sach a prohibition, it " of the West India merchants, he was as ought to be shewn that the necessity of

anxious for it as any man, but to the “ adopting sach a measure arose from tlre

mode now proposed, he strongly objected; · dearın or scarcity of grain, or some just hon, particular, because he did not cause for the apprehension that such a this mode could be effective."

case was likely to happen. The cort of SIRA, WELLESLÈ Y asserted, that the peo. "ibe country was hy the wisest and most ple of Ireland, and especially in the north, « experienced politicians left in general to

were very much distressed for provisions, “ find its own level in the market, by the * which distress would, he maintained, «« nsual means of competition among the

render a measure of this nature necessary, « dealers. When there was a bad harvest, whatever might be the state of the West " and the price of grain advanced nuch Lidia merchants."- COL. MONTGOMERY ( higher than usual, there were always perstated, that the scarcity of the potato sons ready to import from forvigo mar

crops in that part of Ireland with which " kets, and thus keep down the price whilst * he was acquainted, liad been such last " they promoted their own interests. But * year as to afford scarcely enough to spare “ it never could be the interest of any state

for ihe ordinary cultivation or seed. The " to be disregardful of the interests of the "consequence therefore was to produce a farnier, and not to leave him some openįr proporţionable scarcity of corn, which “ing to dispose of the surplus of his crop " he thought the measure under conside- "These opportunities were first, in the sale * ration calculated to alleviate, if not to re- se at the breweries and distilleries, and se. ?? medy; iherefore he shonid vote for it." condly, by exportation. He believed that - SR Joun, NEWPORT was surprized at the " this was the first time in the English biza

statement, that the north of Ireland had tory, except in a time of scareity, or the ** recently experienced any material want apprehension of such an event, that ever 4 of provisions, as the price of corn had “ the legislature attempted thus to tamper

not been for several months at all flac- es with the agricultural interests of the naquating, at ope, of the preatest ports for

preatest ports for just tioit. Besides that, he could not believe

" that it was capable of affording ang submeant Wateifend. If any scarcity ex+ 06. stantial relief to the West India merchants there

háturally concluded 'or planters; and if the house once adopted that 'sushi

e affected 1 sach-a measure, and left suglica precedent 족

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