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Their work is here most carefully and critically would be about £650. In present circumstances discussed. On the period of debasement which the committee were not prepared to advise exclosed the eighteenth and began the nineteenth penditure of so large a sum for this purpose, but century Mr. Freeman writes with vigour, but proposed a tablet of similar design, although also with discrimination ; on the revival and executed in painted tile panels instead of in on modern examples and tendencies he is ap- bronze and enamel, which can be provided at a preciative but also ready with suggestive and comparatively small cost. The committee prohelpful criticism. He advises a return to the posed that the inscription placed on the tablet be use of shutters—which would both be useful in the following terms :to enclose the organ at cleaning times and add “ This Tablet is in memory of Sir Hugh Wila signal opportunity for decoration; and he loughby, Stephen Borough, William Borough. says all that should be said about the enormity Sir Martin Frobisher, and other navigators, who, of letting the tops of pipes appear above the in the latter half of the Sixteenth Century, set sail wood-work of the case.

from this Reach of the River Thames near RatWe have not discovered upon what principle cliffe Cross to explore the Northern Seas. the illustrations are arranged, and there is no “ Erected by the London County Council, 1922." index of persons. Moreover, so good a book might, we think, have been more attractively mittee expressed the opinion that it should be

As regards the position for the tablet, the comprinted. Otherwise we have nothing but praise erected on a stone to be placed in the King Edward for a sound and careful piece of work.

Memorial Park. With the concurrence of the
Parks Committee a site had been selected for the

purpose. In this position the memorial will be RATCLIFFE CROSS AND STAIRS

close to the river and will be well under observaMEMORIAL.

tion and thus less liable to damage than if placed

on the Ratcliffe tunnel entrance in the open street. The movement for the restoration of Ratcliffe Moreover, it will probably be seen by more people. Cross and Stairs to public memory and honour An offer to present and fix a suitable stone has as the rendezvous and sailing-place of many of the been made by Mr. E. C. Hannen, of the firm of first oversea adventurers of England (whose little Messrs. Holland and Hannen, and the total cost ship-crews were mainly recruited in the maritime of providing and fixing the panel will, it is estiparts of Old Stepney), would appear to have mated, not exceed £60. originated some sixty years ago at the instance of the teaching corps of the two most conspicuous

The London County Council adopted this re. Foundation schools in the locality, supported by port, none dissenting, and the Records Committee the authorities of the Mother Church of St. Dun were empowered to take all the necessary steps in

the matter.

Mc. stan, Stepney. And of late years it has enjoyed attention in the most exalted quarters with intimate Naval associations, in connexion with the designing of the King Edward Memorial Park, at

CORRIGENDA. the adjacent Shadwell, in the same reach of the 1. ANCIENT British DYE (12 S. ix. 491, 531).Thames.

In my communication at the last reference, for Long before the reign of the Tudors--when Cambridge” read Corbridge, and for * will men-at-arms and archers were for ever passing to not,” read would.

J. T. F. and from the French heritages, fiefs and acquisitions of English kings--the shipwrights of Rat- 2. At 12 S. ix. 527, col. 1, l. 12, for 1541 cliffe were building vessels for what was to be, read 1542.

JOHN B. WAINEWRIGHT. practically, the King's Navy in the making ; and the ancient Stepney Vestry had scarcely settled to: its functions ere resident Masters, Captains, Brethren, Mariners of the Trinity Guild are found

Notices to Correspondents. serving actively on the body, with brewers, artificers, craftsmen, gunmakers, powdermakers, cannon-founders, ropemakers, sailmakers, riggers, to "The Editor of ' Notes and Queries ' "-Adver

EDITORIAL communications should be addressed blockmakers, shipwrights, carpenters, sawyers, tisements and Business Letters to

" The Pub shipsmiths, fleshers, viet uallers, salters, coopers, lishers”-at the Office, Printing House Square. &c., upbuilding the Port of London.

In the report of the Records and Museums Com- London, E.C.4 ; corrected proofs to The Editor, mittee submitted at the last meeting of the Lon. N. & Q.,' Printing House Square, London, E.C.4. don County Council, it was recalled that, in May, ALL communications intended for insertion in 1914, the Committee had under consideration a our columns should bear the name and address of proposal made by Sir John Benn, Bt., that a the sender-not necessarily for publication, but as memorial to Elizabethan explorers and navigators a guarantee of good faith. should be erected at the place“ formerly known as

We cannot undertake to answer queries Ratcliffe Cross.” It was proposed that a bronze tablet with a suitable inscription and a design in

privately. enamel of a ship of the Tudor period in full sail When answering a query, or referring to an should be affixed to the wall of the Ratcliffe en- article which has already appeared, correspondents trance of the Rotherhithe Tunnel (which is the are requested to give within parentheses-imactual site of the historic Ratcliffe Cross). The mediately after the exact heading the numbers project was estimated to cost £270. It was, how. of the series, volume, and page at which the conever, post poned until after the war, and now it tribution in question is to be found.

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The above Adam is called a second son ; LONDON, JANUARY 14, 1922.

and as his heir, his daughter Margaret

becomes also heir, no doubt, to his elder CONTENTS.-No. 196.

brother William, if it were possible to NOTES :- The Troutbeck Pedigree, 21–Needham's Point accept the statement of the pedigree that Naval and Military Cemetery. Barbados, 23—Principal

William ob. s.p.” This, however, appears London Coffee-bouses in the Eighteenth Century. 26-A to be entirely erroneous : the fact is that Parliamentary Election in the Seventeenth Century, 27- | William says he executed certain deeds

- Provincial Booksellers. A.D., 1714, 28-Edward Fitz- passing lands to his children”; in his Gerald: E. P. G.--Apprentices to and from Overseas, will (P.C.C., 35 Bennett) he recites that Inequality of Postal Rates, 29—“ Dear Clifford's Seat "

the deeds were dated May 1 (1508), 23 Susser Pronunciation of Place-names-Caen Wood-A Singular Request, 30.

Henry VII., whence it may seem plian QUERIES :-Dr. Gideon A. Mantell, F.R.S.-Baron Grant

he had no issue born after that date. Beauchamp: Moseley: Woodham (Wodham)-Song-book

Since upwards of two years before his death by Tobias Hune-St. John the Almoner-Launching of these children are alive, he certainly had Ships, 31-Rabbits in Australia-Cipher on St. James's issue, whether surviving him or not. Palace_The Brighton Athenzeum-Pedigrees

This William is stated to have been Adah Lasc Menken's 'Infelicia --The English "h": Celtic, Latin and German Influences - James Hales

15 years of age in 4 Edward IV., whence Thor sby Hardres_Welsh Map sought, 32— The Ingoldsby

he was born about 1449. His father had Legends -Inscriptions on an' Icon, 33-Proverb : Origin died 2 Edward IV., and in the two years' wanted--Matthew Amold : Reference sought-Author's interval he had been ward first of the King Nanne wanted, 34.

and then of Sir John Butler of Bewsey. REPLIES :-“ Mata Hari's" Youth, 34-Vice-Admiral Sir The quoted pedigree presents that by

Christopher Wings, 35—Title of “ K.H.”—Sir Richard 2 Edward IV. (1462) he had been married Woolfe-Cotton family of Warbleton (Warblington), 36–

to a Joan or Jane, daughter of Sir John The House of Harcourt, 37-Plugenet-" Journey"

Botiller, doubtless the guardian: it may S nokers' Folk-lore, 38-Edward Lamplugh—Molesworth--Author of Poem wanted, 39.

be the date should read 4 Edward IV., XOTES ON BOOKS :- Ancient Tales from Many Lands '

namely, the year of the inquisition upon * Essays and Studies by Members of the English Associa

his father's death. Passing that, he is at tion'— Pedigrees of some East Anglian Dennyg – Memoir least married by 1464, and then some of Colonel William Denny, Lieutenant-Governor of Pennsyl- 15 years of age : but there is a further Fania,"

statement that he was divorced from Xotices to Correspondents.

Joan, “ July 31, 1491,” they “being within the fourth degree.” He was by then aged about 42, and had been her husband for

more ;

the children” Notes.

whom he speaks in his alleged deeds of THE TROUTBECK PEDIGREE.

1508—when he is near 60-might thus

include some issue of Joan. By 1508, the INTEREST in this family arises perhaps for youngest of such issue, if any, must be the most part only at its extinction in the nearing their majority ; some of them may main line, when an heiress carried Al- be parents of issue already growing up. brighton to the Talbots of Grafton-accord - Possibly there are none, however ; that ing to the usual accounts. At that point might have stimulated a respect for the we read John Talbot was already married asserted canonical scruples of two decades to Margaret Troutbeck, daughter of Adam, ago. and heiress of Adam's elder brother William, In any case William marries again, and she being then 16 years of age, namely, to a wife capable of bringing him an heir. at William's death in 2 Henry VIII. or. She was Margaret, daughter of Richard about 1510. Such the statements Hough of Leighton esq. married in or advanced by Helsby, in his ‘Ormerod's ante 18 Henry VII.” (1502-1503), namely, Cheshire' (ii. 42), using a version evidently at least 5 years, and maybe over 15 years, derived mainly from a draft by Beamont. before the date of these deeds. That will It seems difficult to believe that the facts suggest that he has relatively young issue quite agreed ; and Beamont's Introduction in his own word, children-born of Margaret. to the Amicia Tracts' controversy does She is stated to have remarried William not indicate him & peculiarly sagacious Poole of Poole, by 4 Henry VIII. (1512); genealogist.

to him she bore several children, including

27 years





a son, Ralph, born too previously (ibid., father in law.”. He made his wife executrix, p. 423); and she was dead by 1531. In his without mentioning her name. By the will, however, William does not say that visitations apparently in error, howeverany of his children are by either wife. she was Elizabeth, daughter of Walter

“ William Troutbeck, knight : to bury in Wrottesley, knight ; she is said to have died my chapel of S. Mary of the Hill, in May 10, 1559, Walter having died, as it Chester : wife Margaret and Thomas Hoghe seems, in 1502. Whatever the facts so far, ex'ors : : my lord of Ely overseer : twenty

it was not till April 2, 1580, that letters of four servants to have black gowns to administration de bonis non after the death of accompany testator's body to burial : twelve the executor (i.e., this second wife and relict) poor men to have white gowns and to bear issued to John Talbot nepoti ex filio, namely, twelve torches. † As touching lands: By to the testator's grandson, who was father of deeds, &c., of May 1, 23 Henry VII. : George, ninth Earl of Shrewsbury. That Thomas Hoghe and William Frodsham suggests that the executrix lived till about feoffees, &c., by recovery, &c., of all my 1580 ; which is no proof that she was not lands in Cheshire, to grant certain manors

born by 1502. to Margaret my wife for her life for jointure : The immediate question, however, is in also to sons and daughters of testator for what sense does Talbot call Richard Trutbek term of their lives, &c., remainder to right his father-in-law ? The description heirs : children named in the deeds.

often used with much laxity-it may at any Dated 9 September, 1510; proved time cover a stepfather—here it can only 3 December, 1510, by the ex'ors."

mean the father of the testator's wife or her Though the children were named in the stepfather or his own stepfather. Predeeds, none are named in the will; therefore sumably it cannot mean a husband of the it is manifest they were all born by 1508, testator's mother, if she had married first and it might follow also that none of them Barton, second Talbot, and third Richard had died by 1510. Since the executors Gardiner, Lord Mayor of London in 1478, are the relict and her agnate Thomas who was dead in 1488/9, thus leaving it quité Hoghe, the interests of her issue might improbable that either she or any final husseem to be safeguarded, and presumably band could be still alive 60 years later, in the Bishop of Ely will be able to supervise. 1549. , If, then, that lady was really this But what became of these children; what Talbot's mother, and Richard consequently were the manors and all the lands in no husband of hers, he must be in some Cheshire : and by what date does the sense the father of the testator's wife, namely, remainder to right heirs convey anything of one of his wives. In that case is it to be to Margoret, the wife of John Talbot, or to another wife, in between the Margaret of his her representative ? Moreover, that is not youth and the executrix of his will, or is quite the last question.

Elizabeth Wrottesley” daughter of some At the death of her uncle William in 1510, Richard Trutbek: or is that Richard to rethe last-named Margaret is said to be aged present the father of the first wife ? Under 16 and already Talbot's wife ; therefore the contradicts the juries at the inquisitions,

that superficial explanation, the testator statement is that she was born about 1494. whose authority is liable to be quite as good Her mother, Adam's wife, was another Margaret, expressly called daughter of “Sir Richard may be no more than stepfather to

as his own. The further possibility that John Butler of Bewsey," namely, the guar. one of the wives is apparently even more dian, as above, of William the heir, Adam's elder brother. When John Talbot of Grafton

difficult. died in 3 Edward VI., Sept. 10, 1549, he left a

As a simple alternative, perhaps, the pediwill (P.C.C., 40 Populwell) whereof he grees are a little wrong somewhere-both of appoints as overseer Richard Trutbek


them. The hints that a generation of Talbot

has been dropped out are plain enough, if * James Stanley, 1506-1515 : testator's mother misleading. Equally obvious is the indicais called Margaret Stanley, sister of Thomas, tion that Richard will be one of the children first Earl of Derby, father of the bishop.

of William Troutbeck ; but, if so, by which + The distinction in status and garb was marriage ? Was he born by apparently a well-recognized custom, and the therefore now nearing or past 60 ? Mani

1491" and fee of the

poor men at one period seems to : have been generally half-a-crown a piece, whence festly he is not born after that year if it is to the occasional description

halfcrownsmen." | be his daughter who was born about 1494, as

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above. Clearly Richard is no alias for Adam tombstones and crosses shattered and if Adam was dead during William's lifetime, overturned, while the brick graves showed namely, 40 years before. Plainly there is unmistakable evidence of having been wild confusion somewhere ; the record rifled of some of their contents. evidence at the two ends of this artless tale It seemed lamentable that whilst the can by no means be reconciled with the Imperial Graves Commission was devoting pedigree professing to connect them. such loving care to the graves of our gallant Richard, of course, could explain, but un soldiers who fell in France and Flanders, fortunately one has not elsewhere met with this old Naval and Military Cemetery in Richard in any capacity. Neither has one the West Indies should be so sadly neglected. been able to find any person able to bear the

Sir John Butcher, Bart., K.C., M.P., description "father-in-law” in 1549. Who, then, was this Richard, at the first mention very kindly took the matter up at my appointed overseer, and later on described request shortly after my return from the only by his relationship in the bequest

West Indies, and asked a question in the to

House of Commons on June 22, 1920. my father in law two of my best colts” ? It seems that Richard's daughter must be

As a result, the Colonial Office has the unnamed executrix, viz., the last wife of obtained from the various West Indian the testator : it would be no surprise to find Governments a series of reports regarding Richard himself and Margaret, the daughter the cemeteries containing naval and military of Adam, much about of an age, the while he graves. From these it would appear that looks so like one of the “ children," and a son while in several colonies care has been of Margaret Hough. If that were so, he taken to maintain the graveyards, in others would be one of the beneficiaries under the nothing has been done in this direction for alleged deeds ; but those are described to years, the reason perhaps being that the cover only Cheshire lands, thus leaving it War Office, under whose control some of still open to discussion how or if Margaret them are, has lost touch with the West the daughter of Adam brought the Salop Indies since the garrisons were withdrawn property of Albrighton to this John Talbot, in 1905. It is very satisfactory, therefore, to who in his will calls himself “ of Grafton," know that as the result of the representaand says nothing about Albrighton.

tions made to them in this connexion, a The search for Richard, obviously the first very active body of ladies in Barbados, line of inquiry, has not been wholly fruitless : known as the “ Civic Circle,” of which there was one Richard Trowtbecke who left Lady Carter is the president and Mrs. R. a will, registered at Lichfield under the date Browne the hon. secretary, has very kindly 1552 (series üi. 49). Hitherto opportunity undertaken to put the cemetery at Needhas not offered to consult that record. if ham's Point in order, the Government any inquirer can furnish an abstract of it, having consented to provide the necessary it will be possible to see whether that testator funds for the purpose. When I last heard says anything about the several sons and from Mrs. Browne the work of clearing up daughters of John, who may have been the cemetery was to be started and the Richard's grandchildren, since they were cemetery was to be enclosed. clearly children of the executrix.

The Civic Circle” has sent me a list of HAMILTON HALL. interments as far as they have been able (hafford.

to decipher the names on the shattered

tombstones, and they would, I know, NEEDHAM'S POINT NAVAL AND greatly appreciate its publication in

N. & Q., which might enable them MILITARY CEMETERY, BARBADOS.

get into

touch with some of the DURING & visit to Barbados in 1920, relatives of the officers, non-commissioned I was shocked to notice the deplorable officers and men and sailors and members condition of the old Naval and Military of their families who are buried at Needham's Cemetery on Needham's Point, the sandy Point. The list is as follows: promontory or the south-east side of

Laura Amelia, wife of Sergt. ANDERSON, Carlisle Bay,

Though the latest inter- M.B.C., died June 9th, 1897, aged 39 years. LI*st took place there as recently as 1914,

Pte. R. BABEONE, died 1878. the cemetery had been allowed to go

Mary L. BAILY, wife of Thomas Baily, died

1875. La rack and ruin. The railings which Major BALDWIN. surrounded it were broken down, and the Corp. T. BARRICK, died 1877.

aged 31.

Hercules Webster BAULD, Landsman, U.S. Gr. Dennis FARRELL, 6/1 C.P.D., R.A., died Navy ; born March 18th, 1878;. died December October, 1885, aged 38 years. 5th, 1899. Erected by his shipmates of the Susanna FORSYTH, died 1880. U.S. ship “ Lancaster.

Col. Donald Alexander FRAZER, Royal EnAlfred Geo. BEER, Stoker of H.M.S." Intrepid,” gineers, died August 5th, 1881, aged 52 years ; died at the Hospital, Barbados, 19th August, 1898, also to Annie, only daughter of late Capt. Nassau

STEPHENS, 94th Regt., and step-daughter of Mrs. Sergt. T. BENTON, 98th Regiment, died 1875. D. A. Frazer, died August 2nd, 1881, aged 37 years.

Robert BLOMBERO, Seaman, U.S. Navy, born Carl GALLE. in Finland, March 19th, 1861; died February James GIBBONS, Military Store Department, 26th, 1902, at Bridgetown, Barbados. Erected died 27th July, 1883, aged 60 years; also his wife, by his shipmates on board the U.S.F.S. “ Hart- Catherine GIBBONS, died 2nd August, 1904. ford.”

Joseph Fitzherbert GITTENS, Royal Artillery, George Bolton, Stoker, H.M.S. “ Tourmaline,” son of Francis Gittens. died at sea, Nov. 16th, 1879, aged 25 years.

Hector, son of J. E. and Bandmaster A. GRAY, Sydney, child of F. BOSHELL, Royal Berks born 5th May, '86, died 11th August, '91. Regiment, died 1898.

Edward GREVES. Miles H. BRAITHWAITE, late Py. Ms. Sergt. Lance-Corporal J. HALL, died 1883; Band, Ist 2nd W.I. Regt., died June 1st, - aged 45 years. | Bat. Royal Scots.

John Graham BRANSCOMBE, deputy Assist. Cecil, son of M. E. and Sergeant R. I. HALL, died Supt. of Stores, eldest son of John Branscombe February 15th, 1893, aged 17 days ; also their son of London, died 28th November, 1867, aged 33. Walter Henry, died 22nd February, 1893, aged J. BRIDGER. (See ROYAL ARTILLERY.)

1 year and 5 months. Ellen Sedney, Emily Kate, children of Band- Edward HAMILTON, Stoker, H.M.S. “ Pallas," Sergt. G. A. BRYDEN, 2nd D. of W. Regiment. died 7th March, 1897, 24 years.

Lieu. Col. R. BULLEN, Royal Engineers, died Pte. Timothy HAMILTON, D Coy., 2nd Bat., in Barbados, 30th June, 1883.

Leinster Regt., died August 8th, 1899, aged 27 No. 4890 Pte. C. Callis, 2nd Batt. Leinster years. Regimont, Royal Canadians, died April 29th, Mary Elizabeth, wife of Sergeant S. E. HAYNES, 1900, aged 23 years.

2nd W. I. Regiment, died 1875. Mary Elizabeth, the wife of Sergeant CAR- Harriet Jane Victoria, wife of Major HOBBs. MICHAEL, C.M.L., died 10th January, 1885, Sergeant T. HOLDER, died 1878. aged 34.

Angelina HOWARD, died 1914. George G. CARR.

D. HYDE. (See ROYAL ARTILLERY.) Sergeant Benjamin CLARKE, 2nd West India John Henry JAMES, Stoker, died 27th August, Regiment, died December 20th, 1885, aged 1899, buried at sea; H.S.M. Tribute." 41 years,

Jane JOHNSTON, wife of Corp. R. Johnston, Ist Peter J. COCHING, 35th Regiment. (No date.) W.I. Regt., died 1878.

John COLEMAN, Pte. in H.M. 97th, who died Maud Lizette Marian JONES, died 1885 ; 4th July, 1874, aged 44.

Henrietta Louise Lemoon JONES, died 1879. John COLLINGS, 98th Regiment, died 1874. Colour-Sergt. Robert Jones, 29th Regiment,

Thomas W. Cook, R.N., Boatswain, H.M.S. died 1872. “ Northampton,” killed accidentally, 1882.

Arthur Staveley Clive JUSTICE, died July 12th, Eleanor Radley, died 19th October, 1886; 1881, aged 44 months. Cicely Radley, died 10th October, 1886 ; twin John KELLY, R.A., died 22nd February, 1905, daughters of Capt. Jas. COULTON, D.A.C.G. ; aged 70 years. born 4th June, 1886.

Gerald Pearson King Harman, infant son of Herbert T. COUSINS, D.A.C.O., Commissariat Major Waldron E. R. KELLY, Assistant Military Staff, who died of yellow fever eight days after Secretary, died 22nd June, 1888. landing, August 8th, 1881, aged 25.

Colour-Sergeant M. KINSEALA, 98th Regiment, Martha CRADDOCK, died 1878.

died 15th June, 1814 (?), aged 44 years. John CUMMINS, Stoker, died 24th September, John KNELLER, died 1875. 1899.

Janie, dearly loved child of Major G. C. E. A. DARCEY, son of E. Darcey, 2nd W.I. KNOCKER, D.A.A.G., born 2nd June, 1890, died Regiment, died 1875.

22nd March, 1896. Edward James Dixon, able seaman, H.M.S. Captain E. LAWLESS, A.P. Depart., died Canada"; born at Dover, England; died 29th August 16th, 1881, aged 42. Mav, 1892.

Lieutenant T. E. LE BLANC, 1st Bat. The King's Ellen Louisa DOGGETT, died 10th April, 1876, Own Royal Lancaster Regiment, who died of yellow aged 3 years and 5 months ; Alice Rebecca fever at St. Anns, Barbados, on the 28th July, 1881, DOGGETT, died 6th August, aged 2 years; the aged 26 years. daughters of W. and E. Doggett, 35th R.S. Reg. In memory of the men of the 1st BAT. LEICESPte. G. DOUGLAS, 35th Regiment.

TERSHIRE REGIMENT, who died while stationed at Louisa DRUCE, the wife of James Druce, military Barbados during the years 1893-94-95. . . . Erected labourer.

by Capt. Barnardiston, Officers and Ship’s ComWilliam A. DUNLOP, Stoker, H.M.S. Magi- pany of H.M.S. “ Rover.” cienne," drowned at Barbados, 2nd June, 1893, Pte. R. LENOIR, died 1879, aged 24.

George LIER and his wife, died 1879. Col. Sidney Baynton FARRELL, commanding No. 3568, Pte. Bernard Lyons, 2nd Bat. Royal Engineers, who died at Barbados 7th Sept., Leinster Regiment, died July 4th, 1899, aged 28 1879, aged 50.


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